RE: Bank Of Montreal Online Security

["Hough, Kenneth P" <kenneth.phough () WPI EDU>]

Also substituting letters with symbols will help, for example:
> And then william sayed:"I really hate cake!"
Change the 'a' to @ and 's' to $
> And then willi@m $ayed:"I really hate cake!"

-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Alexander Meesters
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:53 AM
To: Alexander A. Kelner
Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com; security-basics-return-58248-a kelner=noc brsi ru
Subject: Re: Bank Of Montreal Online Security

Well, i believe that if you use proper punctuation it would be near to impossible, cause a automated dictionary attack 
does not know proper grammar, for example:
> And then william sayed:"I really hate cake!"
plus a dictionary attack also has a lot of problems with dialects and slang, so in order for a dictionary attack to be 
successful they must use a tool that uses some kind of AI.
At least that is what i believe, please correct me if i'm wrong, my experience with dictionary attacks are not that 
great.

Alex 


----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- 

Van: "Alexander A. Kelner" <a.kelner () noc brsi ru>
Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com, "security-basics-return-58248-a kelner=noc brsi ru" 
<security-basics-return-58248-a.kelner=noc.brsi.ru () securityfocus com>
Verzonden: Woensdag 31 oktober 2012 21:49:23
Onderwerp: RE: Bank Of Montreal Online Security 

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Dave Kleiman wrote: 

> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:26:30 -0500
> From: Dave Kleiman <dave () davekleiman com>
> To: "security-basics () securityfocus com" 
> <security-basics () securityfocus com>
> Subject: RE: Bank Of Montreal Online Security
> Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:07:10 -0700 (PDT)
> Resent-From: 
> security-basics-return-58248-a.kelner=noc.brsi.ru () securityfocus com
>
> Alexander,
>
> > > > Which password length is more secure - that is a question.<<<
>
> If you used the above statement, just as you typed it, as your 
> password (passphrase), would it not both much stronger than 6 
> characters and very easy to remember?

Hi Dave! 

Yes, it's very easy to remember, but I think this method for password 
setting is not as strong as it may appears :-) 

The phrase "Which password length is more secure - that is a question" 
contains not 58 "random chars", but 11 only, because each word must be 
considered as a single symbol in the vocabulary, say for brute force attack. 

There is a strong corelation between the chars inside of the words if these 
words are taken from our lexicon. So, these characters should not be 
considered independent. Yes, this password is long but it is not too random, 
and so it is not too secure. 

Moreover there may be found efficient heuristics when you try to attack 
passwords like human speech sentences due to existing correlation between 
words inside of such sentences and due to quite deterministic structure of 
sentences. 

If you bring some order (the way for easy memorizing) into your password 
you decrease it's strength. 

Well, and now try to type above phrase in invisible mode and don't make 
mistake :-) 

Though, IMHO six chars passwords are too short. I like at least 8 :-) 

> Respectfully, 
>
> Dave Kleiman - http://www.ComputerForensicsLLC.com - http://www.computerforensicsexpertwitnesses.com 
>
> 4371 Northlake Blvd #314 
> Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410 
> 561.310.8801 
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Alexander A. Kelner 
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 16:20 
> To: security-basics () securityfocus com 
> Subject: RE: Bank Of Montreal Online Security 
>
>
> > From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> > [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of mrtolton () gmail com 
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:08 PM 
> > To: security-basics () securityfocus com 
> > Subject: Bank Of Montreal Online Security 
> >
> > It's come to my attention that the Bank Of Montreal online security is 
> > shockingly lax. First of all regardless of your password length, it 
> > only cares about the first six characters. Even more insane is it 
> > doesn't matter what case of the letters are, it will allow you access all the same. 
> >
> > On top of this, theres a bug in the iPhone app which will not allow 
> > you to unsave your card number. 
> >
> > Its a good thing they guarantee 100% of your money against fraudulent 
> > transfers, because its only a matter of time. 
>
> Hello. 
>
> IMHO "shockingly laxity" is not as obvious as it may appear at first approach. 
>
> Six chars give us about (26+10)^6=2 billions of possible passwords. 
> If their server is smart enough to allow as low as 1 authentication attempt per second for the same account then you 
> will spend some hundreds years trying to brute force it. 
>
> BUT! The short password can be easy memorized, when the long password must be recorded somewhere (sometimes in very 
> inappropriate place), and then may be stolen. Which password length is more secure - that is a question. 


--- 
Alexander A. Kelner 
Senior engineer 
CT Network Operation Center 
RosTelecom - Bryansk 

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