Re: what should I do when....

[Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers <bugtraq () planetcobalt net>]

On 2008-07-10 Adriel Desautels wrote:
> What I said is not wrong, it is actually very accurate.

No.

> Firewalls are traffic shaping devices and it is my opinion that they
> are not security devices. In fact, I'm not sure what you disagree
> with.

Look up the definition of "traffic shaping" (e.g. [1]). Look up the
definition of "firewall" (e.g. [2]). Notice the difference.

> I said:
>
> "It is my opinion that firewalls are not security devices as much as
> they are traffic shaping devices. Their job is to control network
> connections and the flow of traffic, not to ensure that something
> can't be hacked."
>
> You accused me of being wrong, but then you said:
>
> "A firewall is the implementation of a concept of what kind of traffic 
> you want to allow or disallow between any two given networks."
>
> Isn't that what I said?

No.

> You are in fact shaping traffic by controlling what goes in and out. I
> suppose my use of the term "Traffic Shaping" could be argued.

No.

Firewalls accept or deny access based on their ruleset. Traffic shaping
devices don't decide whether to accept or deny anything, but modify
packet rates in order to optimize network performance and/or bandwidth
usage. Two entirely different concepts, using different means to achieve
different ends.

> I do think that firewalls can be used to enforce certain policies that
> are security oriented, but firewalls are not in my opinion security
> devices.

Then your opinion is wrong. Plain and simple.

The decision what you want to allow or disallow into or out of your
network is by any means a security decision. Firewalls implement and
enforce this decision on a technical level and therefore are by
definition security devices.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_shaping
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewall

Regards
Ansgar Wiechers
-- 
"All vulnerabilities deserve a public fear period prior to patches
becoming available."
--Jason Coombs on Bugtraq