Re: Security and the Under 30 User

["Chris Pick" <pilo1000 () gmail com>]

I am a computer science major concentrating in security and as such my
experiences may not reflect the norm, but perhaps I can shed some
light:

I have a lot of contact with people who are not nearly as security
minded as I am (friends, classmates, family, coworkers from my last
internship) and I have had a different experience then you describe.
Most of the (young) people I talk about security with are not openly
hostile to the idea of virus scanners or access restrictions, they
simply don't believe the trade off is worth it.  From their
perspective they see AV scanners slowing their computers/videos/games,
web filters blocking their favorite sites, and company policies
restricting the software they're allowed to install, but they have
seen no harm come to computers that don't have these protections.

> From my experience, all that is often needed is a minute or two to
explain how a new exploit can  give full control of their computer to
an attacker in the blink of an eye.  Often, as you've pointed out, it
may fall on deaf ears; in that case your most powerful weapon is a
demonstration.  Show them a test machine running a vulnerable program
with a know exploit, explain how that vulnerability can be easily
analogous to their machine with an unpublished hole, then fire up your
laptop with metasploit or similar to exploit the hole and run a
program on the test machine that pops up a window saying "Computer
compramised" etc.  If you can capture the persons interest you can
then explain that most attackers remain stealthy once they've gained
control of a machine and can use that box for years before discovery.

Most people, I feel, will be willing to sacrafice some speed if they
have a more clear understanding of the problem they are being asked to
help combat.

-Chris



On Feb 7, 2008 11:25 AM, net sec consule <netseccon () yahoo com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> First, the disclaimer: I am over 40, have never been
> 'cool' and I have always been considered 'the tall,
> lanky, four-eyed geek.'  But I don't get the under-30
> crowd's attitude towards IT security. Can someone
> please give me a clue? I am at a loss how to respond
> to the attitude I hear, and it impacts my client's
> security and my credibility.
>
> I have been doing network security consulting for over
> 15 years. I also do several public service IT security
> presentations to community and professional groups
> each month. In either environment, I consistently get
> a hostile reception from those under 30. The attitude
> I get is "IT security is a bunch of moronic bull
> (expletive deleted) dreamed up by paranoid moronic
> geezers to justify their existence."
>
> I my consulting practice, I often find where under 30
> users either don't have anti-virus or anti-spyware
> installed. Or, if their company has installed it, they
> have disabled it. They label the AV concept 'stupid'
> and believe that malware is just a fact of life and
> you should 'get over it', and that it really isn't as
> bad as 'people like me' claim it is. I also find that
> the majority of the younger crowd has either disabled
> the anti-virus that came with their personal computer
> or did not renew the subscription when it expired.
>
> You mention key stoke loggers and other spyware, the
> attitude I get is "If you don't have anything to hide,
> then you have nothing to worry about."  Or, "Why
> should I worry about privacy? Every aspect of my life
> is already out there for anyone to read in my blog on
> MySpace."
>
> If you bring up all the malware slowing down their
> computer, you get arguments that AV software slows it
> down worse. I also get the attitude that "Everything I
> need to keep is on my flash drive, so what whenever my
> performance starts to (expletive deleted), I just blow
> away the hard drive and reinstall."
>
> Mention Joe Lopez and his loss of bank funds, and the
> attitude is that his case is an anomaly; "Why haven't
> other cases made the news? He must have done something
> to p-o BoA." And it never fails that someone claims to
> have a friend that had money stolen from their bank
> account or credit card, and the bank put the money
> back. I bring up that we are all paying for such
> losses by lower interest rates on savings and higher
> credit card and bank free rates, they could care less.
>
>
> (A couple of side note to banks:
>   1) I have had many people claim that they would be
> willing to pay $5 to $25 per transaction just to be
> able to continue to use online banking if that was
> what was required to offset the fraud costs. When
> probing deeper, the per transaction cost appears to be
> about one-half hour's pay. Just for the convenience of
> not having to write a check or use snail mail.
>   2) I have heard several of the younger crowd claim
> that it is common practice that when you get mad at
> your bank, just post your credit card information
> on-line so that the bank gets a bunch of fraudulent
> charges against the card and cancels it. They see it
> as a way to punish the bank for upping their interest
> rate or imposing late fees.)
>
> In the corporate world, the attitude is even worse. I
> have a client that recently implemented web content
> filtering that blocks the social networking sites,
> blogs, chat rooms, and other non-business content.
> That resulted in the mass resignation of under 30
> staff, because "I can't work here if I can't keep in
> contact with my friends while I work." Some are even
> screaming "age discrimination" because sites like
> FoxNews or CNN 'that the old geezers use' were not
> blocked.
>
> Can someone please explain this attitude? Why the
> fierce resistance to anything relating to security?
> Why the "I don't care about privacy" attitude? Why do
> they have to be in constant communication with their
> friends, to the point they would rather be unemployed
> than out of contact?
>
> I do not understand and cannot comprehend these
> attitudes!
>
> Please enlighten me!
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
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