RE: Some Facts - Was CISSP

["Simmons, James" <jsimmons () eds com>]

Craig, your statement of "exasperation" was directed at myself and
myself alone. You have, on a public forum, called into question my
financial and managing skills to my discredit as a statement of fact.
Who is more guilty of libel?

Quoting your source about Geopel J. of Supreme Court of British
Columbia, 
http://www.hg.org/articles/article_1790.html

a communication is defamatory if it "tends to harm the reputation of
another so as to lower [him, her or it] in the estimation of the
community or deter third persons from associating or dealing with them. 

But I hope to put all that behind us and continue with the discussion as
I would like to think I am above all this "he said something that hurt
my feels so I must make a legal argument out of it." Though, now I
realize why a few highly regarded speakers start off their presentations
with a phrase commenting on how they are not experts and in no way
should you trust them.

I am glad to see that Craig has brought to the table some actual pieces
of information.
But I will have to address them at another time as it is getting late. 


Regards,

Simmons

---I should not be trusted in any way. It is up to you to validate any
and all information or decided for yourself what to do with this
information---


-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
On Behalf Of Craig Wright
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 5:54 PM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com
Cc: david.a.harley () gmail com
Subject: Some Facts - Was CISSP

Hello James,
This is an attempt to explain a few concepts calmly. First I did not
attack you personally and you seem to assume that exasperation is an
attack, so be it.

As for the question, "how do they justify the cost of the test", this is
in my side of the argument a "point of view" as you state. It is not a
"truth" that is subject to rhetorical indecision. It is something that
is derived from numerical fact.

ISC2 (the organisation that issues the CISSP) is a non-profit firm. This
means that it does not make a profit. It does not as was stated pay
taxes as taxes are paid on profit and not turnover. You ask "what
expenditures are there?". Well I receive a copy with my members
statement. I am not going to scan and attach it, as ISC2 for a copy.
They have a link on their site for requests such as this.

It is easy to not understand economic theory and of course blame greed.
If in fact an organisation is making huge sums of money, they attract
competition.

I paid the fees for the CISSP and I yearly pay the membership fees. I
also pay ISACA, ACS IEEE and about half a dozen other IT organisations
and I do not ask for my employer to give me anything for this. ISC2 is
one of the less expensive ones. 

Basically the answer is easy. They make on profit. They are a non-profit
organisation. They on average spend all the money they make. As such,
there is not a large incentive for greed.

Your ISC2 certification and membership fees also make a newsletter,
conferences, promotions and other things in over 100 countries. Please
think about this. When looking at the amount, think of how many
countries and what they do. 

It is easy to sit back and critisise. Before doing this take some time
to get the facts. This list is not the place to get financial figures.
Ask ISC2. If you feel that they make so much money, it should be easy
for you to raise venture capital to start your own. 

Regards,
Craig

As a disclaimer, I am not being paid by ISC2 or getting any befits to
defend them - not have I been asked. This is not a response based on
greed or hubris, but rather common sense and a desire to see rational
thought.

Craig Wright
Manager of Information Systems

Direct +61 2 9286 5497
Craig.Wright () bdo com au
+61 417 683 914

BDO Kendalls (NSW)
Level 19, 2 Market Street Sydney NSW 2000 GPO BOX 2551 Sydney NSW 2001
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