RE: RE: The ugly side of using disk encryption

["Henry Troup" <HenryT () watchfire com>]

In our company, I have an agreement with the legal staff - they don't write code, I don't give legal advice.  I suspect 
that hardly any of us are actually lawyers, and any real lawyers regard us as the legal equivalent of "script kiddies" 
- knowing just enough to be dangerous.

If you want legal advice, contact a lawyer or legal aid clinic.  This is not the best forum to get it.

Regards,

Henry Troup
Watchfire Corporation 

-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce () securityfocus com
[mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]On Behalf Of qxlr () twmi rr com
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 12:12 AM
To: Hagen, Eric
Cc: Saqib Ali; kurt.buff () gmail com; Ozgur Ozdemircili; knobdy () gmail com;
robert.d.holtz () gmail com; theguitarizt () gmail com; security-basics
Subject: Re: RE: The ugly side of using disk encryption


According to both criminal and civil law as promulgated by every state 
legislature in the U.S., each family member of a "victim" is also 
deemed a victim. This is called “Loss of Consortium” and derives from 
the real and measurable damage suffered due to another’s criminal or 
willfully negligent acts. This legal standing has been accorded to 
parents, husbands and slave owners since the birth of civilization.

The justice system is not intended to offer guidance to the moronic or 
rehabilitation for the deviant. Simply put, ignorance of the law is 
not an excuse and knowingly covering up any crime, is a furtherance of 
a criminal act--a crime. Those who prey on children for pleasure, 
pedophiles, are considered  especially heinous because such acts lead 
to the devolution of society and in effect cannibalization of one's 
young.

The People of the State, Commonwealth, Government—the society—is that 
which governs, forgives or prosecutes, an offense against the one is 
an offense against the many.

LEGAL and TECHNICALLY.



Hagen, Eric wrote:
> I am firmly of the belief that it is a corruption of justice to 
> use the judicial system to seek revenge, or "provide closure" for 
> a victim's family.
>
> It is intended to offer guidance, rehabilitation and in the worst 
> cases (like this one) to remove the offender from the public.
>
> I have been close friend to a victim of a very nasty case of a 
> similar nature, but i stand firm by my belief that this is not the 
> way it should be regarded.
>
> For the benefit of the list (being technical in nature), I propose 
> we wrap up this discussion as it is a philosophical disagreement 
> rather than a technical one.  I think making encryption a crime, 
> regardless of the circumstances is contrary to civiand often done 
> for the wrong reasons and I'll leave it at that.
>
> Eric
>
> PS smart criminals store their information in a hidden partition 
> and get around this whole thing....  and we're back to "minor" 
> crimials getting tagged...  or so the theory goes.
>
>
> On 10/19/06, Hagen, Eric <hagene () denvernewspaperagency com> wrote:
> > How about if you cleaned up the scene of a crime so that it was 
> nearly impossible to identify you as the culprit?  Should this be 
> prosecutable?  You were using gloves and a mop to attempt to cover 
> up misdeeds.  Is this a crime?  Should it be a crime?   How does 
> encryption differ?
>
> No, it is very different. In this case a pedophile is using 
encryption
> to illegally hold back information from the law enforcement 
> agencies -
> the information that can be used to solve several crimes and bring
> closure to victim's families. What you are talking about is 
completely
> off-topic.
>
> What I am talking about is when a criminal is "already convicted" the
> DA can make deals with the pedophile in exchange of leniency in
> sentencing. My proposal give more leverage to  the office of DA to
> make these kinds of deals.
>
> If you are the family of a victim wouldn't you want to some kind of
> closure even if the pedophile is already behind bars for a different
> case?
>
> Remember:
> "The art of policing is, in order not to punish often, to punish 
> severely"
> -- 
> Saqib Ali, CISSP, ISSAP
> http://www.full-disk-encryption.net
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------


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Using interactive e-Learning technology, you can earn this esteemed degree,
without disrupting your career or home life.

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