RE: Civil Disobedience

["George Milliken" <gmilliken () farm9 com>]

It's not just the prison term, it's the investigative methods proposed that
are worrisome.  The personal freedoms they are taking (in the name of
freedom of course) affect everyone.

magoo

-----Original Message-----
From: Hire, Ejay [mailto:Ejay.Hire () Broadslate net]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:49 PM
To: 'br0ken halo'; vuln-dev () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Civil Disobedience


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Don't you think "hacking is a victimless crime" is a bit soft?  I
agree it doesn't merit life inprisonment, but it still has an impact
on its' victims.

- -----Original Message-----
From: br0ken halo [mailto:x_burning () hotmail com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:55 PM
To: vuln-dev () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Civil Disobedience



I agree that this bill is *very* unneeded...to say, to even make the
comparison between a hacker and a terrorist is absurd! Terrosim kills
people, hacking is a victimless crime. People go on and on about how
our
'national' infrastructure is at *grave* risk from evil hackers and
that
these evil hackers could destroy power grids, shut off our water, and
cause
the beginning of the freaking holocaust - yet have we actually seen
any real
world proof of this? This kind of thinking is only propaganda, as is
the
hacker - terrorist comparison.

Beefing up the sentences on hackers/crackers/virus writers and the
like is
complete stupidity. It's a simple 'we don't really care about how the
problem gets fixed, as long as it does get fixed' attitude. Thats
exactly
what this bill represents. The way to defeat the script kid is
through good
security practices through solid communication and deployment of the
tools
necessary to achieve a secure computing enviroment. This includes but
is not
limited to security lists, good security information websites such as
http://www.securityfocus.com and the like. The only way security
experts and
administrators can secure their computing enviroment is by using the
same
tools that the hackers use to break into them. When you take away
these
tools from the security experts/administrators (as well as the script
kids
who use them), you're denying them the 'civil liberty' of taking
matters
into their own hands (as well they should!) to secure their computing
enviroment. The spread of Information and good security practices is
what
will stop hackers from commiting crimes. Not beefing up sentences.

Can you really justify sending an 18 year old kid to federal prison
because
he hacked your box?

___________________________________________________________
I live in a world of Paradox - My weakness` are your
strengths, your wisdom is my stupidity, and your victorys
are my losses, a victory that won't last.
___________________________________________________________



- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "pomalley(contr-ird)" <pomalley () snap org>
To: vuln-dev () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Civil Disobedience
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:53:07 -0400

This is just my 2cents worth but...

Has anyone bothered to read the bill as it was passed?  The bit about
hacking being punishable by life imprisonment was removed before it
passed.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:2:./temp/~c107RpB60w::



- -----Original Message-----
From: Felix von Leitner [mailto:leitner () convergence de]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 13:42
To: vuln-dev () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: Civil Disobedience

Thus spake John Thornton (jthornton () hackersdigest com):
>  I ask each and every one of you to join me in this protest.

Why not conduct port scans from the IP of the White House, Capitol,
CIA,
DEA and other law enforcement agencies and see whom the FBI arrests?

This is some serious shit, people!  Not reporting is not the way to
go.
This law has to be proven ineffective and harmful.  That means:

   a. computer crime must not go down, or they will think the law was
      effective
   b. computer crim must not go up, or they will make laws with even
more
      severe punishment.

Talk to your representatives about this!  Explain to them that this
law
makes it impossible to learn computer security from the ground up,
which
means that there will be no more qualified new computer security
people
in ten years, which means all the good security companies will not be
in
the USA, which means less jobs, less taxes and more poverty.

Felix



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