Replies to ITAA's claim that e-voting machines worked fine on Election DAy

[Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:18:20 -0500
From: Pescatore,John <John.Pescatore () gartner com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>

Isn't this sort of like saying "Windows was secure today" or "Twenty
million smokers smoked today and didn't die today"?

 The issue wasn't that insecure voting machines would experience blue
screens of death today, or that they would record votes for Jim Nasium.
The issue is that if flawed machines are used for the hight security
application we have, sooner of later bad things will happen. ITAA seems
to have the same attitude as teenagers who smoke thinking "Cigarettes
won't kill me today".

John Pescatore

John Pescatore            VP/Research Director, Internet Security
Gartner Inc.                 john.pescatore () gartner com





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 06:56:04 -0500
From: James Love <james.love () cptech org>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
CC: politech () politechbot com
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

Sort of odd how the exit polls gave Kerry higher numbers.  Reminds me of
the complaints about the Venezuela vote.  Jamie



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:36:37 -0800
From: Cindy Cohn <Cindy () eff org>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/002070.php
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Electronic Frontier Foundation
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:41:13 -0800
From: John Fricker <john () fricker com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

Declan,

Am I missing something or is this press release the equivalent of the
fox declaring that the new fences he built are indeed keeping the
chickens safe.

I believe the most interesting anomaly regarding electronic voting
machines are the inaccuracy of the exit polls in states using new
machines. I'm looking for the complete analysis.

Thanks,
John





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:17:29 -0600
From: mailings <mailings () wi rr com>
To: 'Declan McCullagh' <declan () well com>

Whatever anyone says, regardless of their personal bias, how can anyone know
if these machines work if there is no audit trail?
How can one know if one CAN NOT know???




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:58:07 -0800
From: Jim Warren <jwarren () well com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>, Dave Farber:;
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

>Statement for immediate release:
>
>"Reports from electronic voting machine vendors and media coverage
>today indicate that electronic voting machines are recording
>Americans' votes efficiently and effectively," ITAA President Harris
>N. Miller said. ...

Given that most of the current-generation of electronic-voting
machines have NO mechanism for auditing the voters' ACTUAL choices --
i.e., no VOTER-verified paper record -- one wonders by what
delusional magic ITAA could confirm that no malfunctions occurred
between selections-made, versus the selections-recorded?

--jim

Attorney David Boies mentioned, in a talk aired recently on C-Span,
that Flordia didn't want to have a repeat of the embarrassing recount
problems they had in 2000 ... so they simply got rid of the ability
to DO recounts!  ;-)




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:39:12 -0500
From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk () gsp org>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>


Really?  Just one example of many:

        http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/02/vote_save_error_9_ph.html

But I'm sure the cheerleaders at ITAA will declare success no
matter how bad and how obvious the failures are.

---Rskk




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA  claims
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:36:13 -0700
From: Tony Toews <tony () granite ab ca>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>

At 04:38 PM 2004-11-02 -0600, you wrote:

 >"Reports from electronic voting machine vendors and media coverage
 >today indicate that electronic voting machines are recording
 >Americans' votes efficiently and effectively," ITAA President Harris
 >N. Miller said.

What a crock.   You Americans haven't even started the counts let alone the
recounts.    No paper audit trail in many places scares me.   You can't
leave democracy to computers, software developers and IT admin staff.

I hope Harris N. Miller's predictions are correct and my pessimism on this
issue is overblown.

Hmm, and quite a self serving press release when I look at the about page
for the Election Technology Council at
http://www.electiontech.org/about.php.    But then that's the definition of
a press release I suppose.

Tony (Software developer for twenty five years.)

-----
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm











-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Dailykos.com on Ohio provisional ballots and 
vote fraud
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:02:18 -0800
From: Creede Lambard <ptreader () penguinsinthenight com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <418F29EC.1090006 () well com>

On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 03:10:20AM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> There is one confirmed problem with electronic voting machines in Ohio. 
> See page 23 near "Gahanna" -- 260 votes for Kerry, 4,258 for Bush. 
> That's way out of line with other precincts:
> http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/boe/04UnofficialResults/Unofficial%20Abstract%20of%20Votes%20General%202004.pdf
>
> The Columbus Dispatch quoted election officials as saying it was an 
> isolated glitch that would have been found in a routine review before 
> the election was officially certified:
> http://www.dispatch.com/election/election-president.php?story=dispatch/2004/11/05/20041105-A6-01.html
>
> -Declan

Declan,

The problem is not so much with this one incident, or even dozens of others
like it that have been reported. It's with the perception Americans now have
that their voting system can't be trusted to come up with an accurate
result. This isn't helped by using black-box machines that provide no paper
trail, are easily hackable (Bev Harris showed on live TV how you could alter
an election result on a Diebold machine with nothing more than a knowledge
of how to use Excel, and she took less than five minutes to do it), and
don't so much as give the voter a receipt to show that they voted.

Any system we use to vote in this country must be open to public scrutiny,
secure, transparent, produce voter-verifiable results, be easy to use (or no
one will bother), and above all, inspire confidence in the electorate that
if you vote, your vote will count.

--
===================================================================
                               * .~. (   : Creede Lambard         :
 Never rush a miracle man.    . / V \  . :------------------------:
 You get lousy miracles.       /(   )\   : ptreader at            :
--------------------------------^^-^^----:     penguinsinthenight :
 Linux. Reliable and free. Pick any two. :         dot com        :
===================================================================





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 00:23:34 +1300
From: Steve Withers <swithers () mmp org nz>
Reply-To: swithers () mmp org nz
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

How does anyone know what these machines are doing?

The software is closed source. Uncertified patches are frequently
applied to deal with last-minute "problems".

No receipts are printed or retained so no verification of what the
machines have actually done is possible.

Recounts are impossible in any meaningful sense because the total is the
total is the total......and no verification is possible.

Vote totals are not recorded at diverse locations to highlight or
prevent local or regional tampering with vote totals.

In short....there is no way to know whether these voting machines helped
or hindered an accurate and democratic result. They have been designed
and implemented as though cheating were an important criteria for their
use.

Compare any of the US systems with the virtually incorruptable e-voting
systems and procedures used in the recent Venezuelan recall
election.....with the US had the sheer gall to imply were not fair.

If they were not fair, then the US version - lacking all forms of
independent verification - were and are a complete sham.

Steve


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] E-voting machines have succeeded today, ITAA claims
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 01:29:58 +0100
From: Ralf Bendrath <bendrath () zedat fu-berlin de>
Reply-To: bendrath () zedat fu-berlin de
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <20041102163816.A17947 () baltwash com>

Hi Declan,

> "Reports from electronic voting machine vendors and media coverage
> today indicate that electronic voting machines are recording
> Americans' votes efficiently and effectively," ITAA President Harris
> N. Miller said. "Media reports are focused primarily on long lines and
> other problems related to high voter turnout.

No wonder:
The vendors will of course not say their machies did not work.
And on media coverage: The long lines and high turnout were just easier
to film. But I saw a number of reports on e-voting problems.

What about this?

Watchdogs Spot E-Vote Glitches

Activists watching the election say they received hundreds of calls from
voters reporting e-voting problems -- some small, some significant. The
observers file lawsuits in precincts where the glitches cause alleged
disenfranchisement. By Kim Zetter.
<http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65579,00.html>

Ralf








-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Statisticians for Kerry? - Dailykos.com on Ohio provisional 
ballots and vote fraud
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:17:44 -0600
From: Parks <parks () uhibpd phys uh edu>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>


... 260 votes for Kerry -  4,258 votes for Bush -  is about 6% for Kerry.

Suppose I told you that in a black precinct 94% voted for Kerry, would you
raise the same concern? Are there similar disparities for Kerry?  I have no
personal info - I suspect that these "concerns" were probably raised by
"bean counters"/lawyers who voted for Kerry.

Who knows, the precinct might all belong to the same church - anyway, this
is why paper trails are imperative, where everyone would get an encrypted
number and a ballot receipt that they can reference (to a list published on
a website & at the library) to check their recorded vote  - to really see
that their vote was  cast and is the same as their receipt. If there is a
problem or duplicate voters/ vote fraud, THEN there should be an
investigation. This still wont rid us of the dead voting for Democrats.




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