Politech mailing list archives
FC: Replies to Noah Shachtman's "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos"
From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:49:13 -0500
Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-04500.html --- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:44:08 -0700 (MST) From: "Sonja V. Tideman" <sonjat () cs unm edu> To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com> Subject: Re: FC: Noah Shachtman: "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" Hello, I have never replied to one of these before, but this email really bothered me. I grew up in Los Alamos. I have worked as a student intern at the labs, my brother and sister have worked there, my grandfather worked there when it was a closed city, and my father worked there in TA-55 (the facility where most of the plutonium work is carried out--I would have liked to see him sneak into that). So he snuck into TA-33 (the land around it, not the building). So what? Los Alamos tends to have a great deal of land, and, yes, a lot of it is marked "No Trespassing". And, yes, most teenagers have been in a lot of those areas (TA-33 may well be an area included in that list). The lab may well have a tendency to mark many places that were formally used for certain hazardous work (of which I would put explosives testing in that category) as secure. I am guessing that this is not so much because they have something to hide; it is more to protect people from any possible problems that may remain. Former areas where radiation was processed are going to be listed as secure, despite what may very well be lax security. I can assure Mr. Shachtman that any area the lab truly regards as sensitive, he will not be able to get in. For reference, I would like him to look at TA-55. To the best of my understanding, TA-33 is, for the most part, an unused area. Its classification as a secure area is most likely due to saftey reasons more than anything else--any area where explosives were tested could pose a potential danger, and the lab is just being cautious in keeping it listed as secure. And, for the record, yes, most areas of Los Alamos National Labs are fairly open. Los Alamos is a research institution, and a lot of their work requires collaboration with universities and private businesses. Many areas (including what I suppose he is referring to as "the main gates" Otowi, which is the main adminstrative building and the cafeteria with the library close by) are completely open to the public. This is not, in my opinion, a bad thing. Again, I am not speaking for the Los Alamos National Labs. I do not work for them; I have no authority to do so. This story, however, is incredibly misleading, and I think the your readers should know a possible alternative viewpoint. He has done a trick that may have made a few 12-year-old Los Alamos kids feel brave, but should not be taken to have any real bearing on security at Los Alamos. Sonja Tideman --- From: "J.C." <janconklin () screaminet com> To: <declan () well com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225110410.075f4e50 () mail well com> Subject: Re: Noah Shachtman: "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:45:20 -0700Mr. McCullagh: I had the misfortune of living in Albuquerque, NM for the majority of 23 years and knew and worked with many people who were employed by Los Alamos Natl. Labs and the sister site in Albuquerque, Sandia Labs. I asked one of those people for their comments on Mr. Schachtman's claimed escapades. Here they are, if you are interested, with only minor editing to protect ... er ... somebody or something:
While I can't claim to know anything about area 33, it is my impression that a great amount of journalistic hyperbole (BS) is being used to describe this area as "top secret" and "one of the most closely guarded" areas at LA. The fact that the maintenance workers used this area to store their ill gotten goods indicates that it is never used. It is likely one of those areas so contaminated by old explosives that no one knows quite what to do with it. It is likely guarded to keep idiots from wandering in and poisoning themselves, which would create a liability. Also, in the nuclear weapons complex EVERYTHING remains secret lest somebody analyze our soil and discover the kind of coffee we drank when testing now-long-obsolete weapons in a very different era.I work in a building that is NOT restricted. We do no classified work here, but it would be harder to get in here than it is to area 33. We had an incident before the Sept. 11 security increases where the estranged wife of one of the coneheads copied his badge and pasted her picture on it and managed to make it inside the fence. She was apprehended trying to enter hubby's building. This caused us to have a major security overhaul where policies and procedures were all reviewed by all employees.Classified work does not usually take place where there are ANY windows, let alone open ones.
Regards, /jan conklin --- From: "Danny Yavuzkurt" <ayavuzk () fas harvard edu> To: <declan () well com> Subject: Re: Noah Shachtman: "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:21:38 -0500 *winces and waits for the inevitable arrest and detention for 'national security' reasons*.. Then again, I suppose Noah's plan is to get arrested to increase public awareness of security issues - a noble martyrdom, but unnecessary, IMHO - even an anonymous posting of this information would do enough to worry the gov and perhaps get them to take extra steps. But that said, many kudos to Mr. Schachtman for sticking his neck out and bringing the truth to light. Now all that remains to be seen is how harshly the government will 'reward' him for his help. Trust me, they *always* shoot the messenger - at least until the public hears about it, then it's all backpedaling and retraction. Remember what happened to the FBI agent who insisted about the danger of aircraft terrorism, and the NASA employee who warned them about the left wing of Columbia.. no one likes a whistleblower until *after* they're proven right. *sigh*. -Danny --- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:59:42 -0500 To: declan () well com From: Dan Bernitt <dlb () psu edu> Subject: Re: FC: Noah Shachtman: "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225110410.075f4e50 () mail well com> At 11:05 AM 2/25/2003 Tuesday, you wrote:
--- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:48:51 -0800 (PST) From: Noah Shachtman <noahmax6000 () yahoo com> Subject: FC: How I Snuck Into Los Alamos To: declan () well com
This sort of breaking the law to show that it can be done has been going on forever. There is nothing new and it is amazing how many people still think they are doing something productive. Why doesn't he just go to the authorities with his trick instead of blasting it over the net? His only interest, methinks, is himself. And it's sooo old and unoriginal.
--- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:14:10 -0500 Subject: Re: FC: Noah Shachtman: "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" From: Dave Linabury <davel () davezilla com> To: <declan () well com> Message-ID: <BA810082.908C%davel () davezilla com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030225110410.075f4e50 () mail well com> Mime-version: 1.0 A long time ago, on 2/25/03 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh at declan () well com furiously scribbled: > I snuck into Los Alamos, the world's top nuclear > research center, over the weekend. I thought > Politech readers might want to see my story on how I > did it. I believe him. I had to work there for a project for a few months in 2001, and we routinely saw doors propped open at night by janitors (with confidential info in boxes right by the door). Oops! Color me gone, Davezilla -------------------------------------------- Email: davel () davezilla com Davezilla: http://davezilla.com/ Antibloggies: http://antibloggies.com/ No-Nog Weblog: http://nonog.davezilla.com/ Freak Watchers: http://freaks.davezilla.com/ Fucked Weblog: http://fucked.davezilla.com/ -------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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- FC: Replies to Noah Shachtman's "How I Snuck Into Los Alamos" Declan McCullagh (Feb 25)