Politech mailing list archives
FC: Consumer Reports wants to flush "Consumer Toilet Report" site
From: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:44:27 -0500
[Jamie works for Ralph Nader and has been active against Microsoft. His brother Terry, a plumber, maintains a low-flush toilet reports web site. Apparently concern over crappy products runs in the family. :) --Declan]
******** Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:39:21 -0500 (EST) From: James Love <love () cptech org> Subject: [Random-bits] Trademark dispute on Consumer Toilet Report This is a dispute between Terry Love, who is a plumber and my brother, and Consumer Reports, over his "Terry Love's Consumer Toilet Report." (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm). Consumer Reports thought his web page on low-flow toilets voilated their trademark rights. The dispute appears to have been resolved. Jamie ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:42:15 -0800 From: Terry Love <terry () terrylove com> To: James Love <love () cptech org> Cc: KathrynKl () AOL COM, Eric Menge <eric.menge () sba gov> I had received a request from Wendy Wintman of Consumer Reports, to not use the words consumer and report in a "confusing" way. below are the emails back and forth between her and I. A little background first. In the Winter of 1998, I had posted on the Internet, a page from the AOL version of the CU 1995 toilet report. This html page was text only with no links or pictures, just as it appeared on AOL. A single typewritten page. During my Winter vacation, I had decided to write a better toilet report than the old CU 1995 toilet report. It seemed out of date and listed toilets that I considered poor working in addition to their highly rated ones. It was at this time also, that the Nice& Easy plumbing bulletin that I had been posting to, and was referred to as an resident expert, had sold advertising to someone that had references to me and my site removed. Within a week of meeting with the purchaser of that advertising in Hawaii, Consumer Reports asked me to remove their report from the Internet. Timing was good, as I felt I was ready to move on this anyway. Their report was deleted. I promptly got my own plumbing bulletin board up and running. I also polled the four hundred plumbers on the plumbers.org discussion list about their opinions about toilets. From this input, I purchased toilets, and tried them out. Within a short amount of time, I had assembled quite a bit of new information, of which a few surprises showed up. The page currently is updated monthly. No advertising has been taken on this web site. That could change. It would have to be in a way that does not interfere with the integrity of the writing. I have considered taking non-plumbing advertising. I know that the report on toilets is quite a thorn in CU's side. I think it gets read much more than their May 98 report. 6,985 page views this month so far on the front page. 159,719 hit requests for the pictures and back pages on this report this month. http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm Terry Love <--------------------------------------------------> From CU, Wendy Wintman Dated 3/8/2000 I continue to notice that on your web site you are refer to the Consumer Report on Low-Flow Toilets and in a confusing and unapproved way in that consumers confuse with us, Consumer Reports magazine. This use unfortunately misuses the registered trademark, "Consumer Reports". We are sure the misuse was unintentional, however, such an oversight can serve to weaken the identity and value of our publication, CONSUMER REPORTS, and the service we offer consumers. Your commercial use of our name and Ratings was done without our knowledge or consent. It is in violation of Consumers Union's long-standing policies. Misuse of our materials results in significant harm caused to both Consumers Union and the consuming public. Those who violate these policies damage Consumers Union's most precious asset-its reputation for independence and integrity. Our name is tarnished by misuse. It dilutes the meaning of our trademark, "Consumer Reports" and creates public distrust of our findings and the perception that in someway Consumers Union is somehow affiliated with the very same commercial interests whose products are being evaluated. Overwhelmingly, once they learn of Consumers Union's rights, product manufacturers, sellers, and advertisers throughout the United States agree to refrain from any further use of our name, Ratings, and materials. Please, let me explain why Consumers Union regards such a situation with the utmost gravity. Since its founding in 1936, Consumers Union has built its hard-earned and well-deserved reputation for objectivity, accuracy, and lack of bias upon its independence from commercial interest. Consumers Union does not accept outside advertising for any of its publications nor do we accept commercial contributions. Permission is never given to anyone to use our name or Ratings for advertising or commercial purposes. These policies are stated in every issue of CONSUMER REPORTS, as follows: We accept no advertising and buy all the products we test on the open market. We are not beholden to any commercial interest. Our income is derived from the sale of CONSUMER REPORTS and our other publications, and from nonrestrictive, noncommercial contributions, grants, and fees. Our Ratings and reports are intended solely for the use of our readers. Neither the Ratings nor the reports may be used in advertising or for any other commercial purpose. Consumers Union will take all steps open to it to prevent commercial use of its materials, its name, or the name of CONSUMER REPORTS. Now that you are aware of Consumers Union's policies, its rights, and the important rationale supporting them, I trust that you will agree to discontinue your current use of our name and will respect our rights in the future. You should confirm your agreement to remove this from your web site and refrain from using this or any other reference to CONSUMER REPORTS whether in print or electronically. Please eMail your confirmation to me at the address below within the next seven days so that we may consider this matter resolved. Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation. I would be pleased to answer any questions. Sincerely, Wendy Wintman Copyright Manager Legal Department Consumers Union of U.S., Inc. 101 Truman Avenue Yonkers, NY 10703-1057 PH: 914-378-2448 FX: 914-378-2946 E-Mail: wintwe () consumer org <mailto:wintwe () consumer org> Our POLICY is below: CONSUMERS UNION OF U.S., INC. NO-COMMERCIAL USE POLICY STATEMENT Consumers Union's no-commercial use policy is stated in the front of every issue of CONSUMER REPORTS, CONSUMER REPORTS ON HEALTH, CONSUMER REPORTS TRAVEL LETTER, ZILLIONS, our CD-ROMs, interactive telephone services, on-line services, the Internet, and every book published by Consumer Reports Special Publications. The policy is as follows: Our Ratings and Reports are intended solely for the use of our readers. Neither the Ratings nor the Reports may be used in advertising or for any other commercial purpose. This policy is interpreted to preclude the use of any of Consumers Union's material or title of publication by professionals and/or commercial organizations who would have a direct or indirect benefit from making use of our material, both in print and electronically, including use on the Internet. More specifically, Consumers Union does not permit the use of its material by a manufacturer of a product or a provider of a service, or a professional in the related field discussed in the work. Our material cannot be used by a manufacturer, service provider, or professional internally with employees (for informational purposes), sales force (for training, informational, or sales purposes), dealers, distributors, retailers, or agents. It may not be used externally with existing or potential customers and clients. Mention of our material may not be included in a press release, an annual report, nor a radio or television commercial (whether initiated by the manufacturer, service provider, or by anyone else acting on their behalf). NO MATERIAL MAY EVER BE USED FOR ANY ADVERTISING OR PROMOTIONAL PURPOSES Consumers Union will not sell you additional copies of the entire magazine or book containing the article of interest, nor will we sell you reprints of the specific article. We will also deny permission for you to reproduce the article, in whole or in part, or quote from the article or book. If you believe that your intended use of our material is not commercial in nature, please resubmit your order with payment and a brief explanation of the purpose of your order directly to CU/Reprints, 101 Truman Ave., Yonkers, NY 10703-1057. For permissions requests, please resubmit your request with an explanation by mail or fax it to W. J. Wintman at 914-378-2946. In some cases, your use of our material may violate our legal rights. All of CU's products are fully protected under the United States Copyright Laws, 17 U.S.C. ?? 1 et seq., and unauthorized copying of, or quoting from our materials is strictly prohibited. CONSUMER REPORTS, CONSUMER REPORTS ON HEALTH, CONSUMER REPORTS TRAVEL LETTER, and ZILLIONS, are federally registered trademarks. Advertising that deceptively or falsely misrepresents our findings, or which creates confusion, infringes on our rights under the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C., ??1 et seq. Such advertising may also contravene our rights under state laws prohibiting false advertising and other unfair trade practices. Under ?397 of the New York State General Business Law, the use of the names or identities of nonprofit organizations for advertising or trade purposes is strictly prohibited without obtaining prior written consent. Indeed, CU is a nonprofit organization. If Consumers Union learns that this policy has been violated, it will forward the information to its attorney, who will take all steps open to Consumers Union to prevent the misuse of any of its materials. We hope you can understand why Consumers Union has adopted this policy. Please feel free to share this with your colleagues, clients, and others as appropriate. NOCOM.POL0300 <-----------------------------------------------------> My response to the CU email Wendy, I went through my site and updated links. Things should be better now. Terry Terry Love's consumer toilet reports A report on low flow toilets I list 22 toilets on my report. (02/00) I list 16 toilets that are not listed on "Consumers Report". We list six toilets in common. Consumers Report (05/98)listed 13 toilets total, of which two of them, I listed as bad buys at the lower part of the article, but not in the ratings . Consumers Digest (04/00) on remodel listed a total of nine toilets, five toilets in common with Consumers Report and five in common with Terry Love Consumers Report (05/98) copied the idea for the title of their toilet report from one of my web pages CR Search for a better toilet. TL Search for a better plumber. Terry Love's toilet report is based on plumber input. Plumbers choose toilets for different reasons. We don't like hearing customer complaints on products that we sell. Rather than fixing poor working toilets, we would prefer they buy good ones. For that to happen, the public needs more information. My web site is meant for plumbers and homeowners. Currently we supply information to 1,169 people a day, 4,590 pages, 15,184 files hits. The toilet report gets updated monthly, with input from water districts, plumbers and homeowners. I am in a position to hear all the new and upcoming product information first. If you question people about plumbing on the Internet, they will remember TerryLove.Com TerryLove.Com is a brand name on the Internet. I accept no advertising. I do use the information that plumbers and homeowners give me. I do sell plumbing products. Terry Love <--------------------------------------------------> March 13, 2000 Dear Terry: THANK YOU. We sincerely appreciate it. Sincerely, Wendy Wintman Copyright Manager Legal Department Consumers Union of U.S., Inc. 101 Truman Avenue Yonkers, NY 10703-1057 PH: 914-378-2448 FX: 914-378-2946 E-Mail: wintwe () consumer org <mailto:wintwe () consumer org> File #NC1869 Terry Love <http://www.terrylove.com/>Love Plumbing & Remodel 18628 NE 25th St. Redmond WA 98052 (425) 649-5683 <http://www.psbl.com/>Puget Sound Business Listings _______________________________________________ Ecommerce mailing list Ecommerce () lists essential org http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/ecommerce -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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- FC: Consumer Reports wants to flush "Consumer Toilet Report" site Declan McCullagh (Mar 26)