Re: Getting Break into Pen testing Industry

[Aarón Mizrachi <unmanarc () gmail com>]

El Saturday 17 January 2009 19:44:30 Michal Lovas escribió:
> Hi Vinox,
>
> First you have to realize that without a proper technical education it
> will be difficult to break into IT industry. Skills you listed are
> impressive but you have to understand that most of the companies are
> hiring new people either through their HR departments or they have
> external employment agencies to do this for them. And sadly, most of
> the time those people are not trained sufficiently to be able to
> recognize talented candidates. They are going for certainty by looking
> through your educations/courses/qualifications.
>
> Most of the time they just copy/past job description they got from IT
> department together with salary expectations to the job application.
> Without any idea what TCP/IP, LAN, SQL, UNIX, Active Directory and
> other most common keywords actually represent. Then you can find quite
> funny quotes like 'SQL administrator with Myspace application' or
> 'specialist in TCP/IP and UTP45'..
>
> So you can imagine how is your CV reviewed by people with practically
> nonexistent technical knowledge. You can say you are an expert in
> reverse engineering or you are a Windows servers and clustering
> administrator. But that means little or nothing unless you can prove
> it with corresponding certification.
>
> That is why we can see a boom with different courses and
> qualifications. From CCNA, MCSE or CISSP to different more or less
> specified ones. There was a nice debate about certifications and if
> they are actually useful recently on this forum. We have a saying that
> certified idiot is still an idiot. And my opinion is that
> certifications mean little if you are already in industry. They can
> help you or force you to study more in areas you are not so strong.
> But they are not necessary.
>
> Things are much different if you do not have a traceable experience.
> Then the only way the recruiter can be sure that presenting you to the
> HR manager or other person responsible for final decision is not a
> mistake is by reviewing your education. And as I said, without a
> technical college or university (or even with a technical degree from
> less known and prominent one) you stand on your certifications.
>
> To answer your question about people from other areas than IT, yes
> there are. I know a guy who is working as a police officer and in his
> spare time he is developing online casino flash games. And he is not
> the only one. But to become an IT professional you need a bit more
> than that.
>
> Good luck with CCNA, I took mine last year. If you will study from the
> official materials and take some test exams, you shouldn't have a
> problem with it.
>
> I am not sure if my post is not a bit out of topic, sorry for that.
>
> Michal
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Vin Oxious <vinoxious () gmail com> wrote:
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> >                     Greeting to all !! .. Once again I need your help
> > and expertise ..
> >
> > Well I am an Arts Students  ( did my B.A  - Due to some personal
> > problems which I can't explain out here..  ) .. However at my SSC (
> > XII) I had Physics, chemistry , Biology and Mathematics as my
> > subjects..
> >
> > However I had a keen interest into learning computers.. So I learned
> > programming languages ( includes C, C++, Assembly language, Win32 API
> > SDK Programming, Reverse Engineering, Linux, Windows , Shell and Perl
> > ) and did my MCA. Afterwards I also cleared my EC-CEH .. Well I am
> > finding it very difficult to get a break into industry. Yeah I know
> > that experience is required to get into a industry .. But then it is
> > contradictory that without experience no one considers you and you
> > don't get an experience without working..
> >
> > BTW I am planning to clear CCNA
> >
> > Are there any peoples who are often from other disciple other than
> > computers science  or just leave this wild goose chase
> >
> > Please give your views positive or negative .. Thanks .. If required
> > will post my resume in Plain text format
> >
> > thanks for your help
> > regards,
> > Vinox

I agree with Michal. I may say that "i know rocket science"... but without 
evidence... HR deparment will reject my rocket designer application.

But for me, what are evidence? Experience aren't only a laboral experience or 
certifications... 

0. Education: a degree...
1. Laboral Experience...
2. Certifications...
3. Recommendations...
4. OpenSource and own projects history/portafolio (if you are unemployed, you 
can start your own opensource project, and who better than you to support it 
and gain experience?)
5. Meetings and Conferences.
6. Pappers and forum assistance.

etc.
you can prove: 0,1,2,4.

- Recommendations doesn't talk anything about you until you are being 
recommended by a big fish.
- Everyone can talk on Meetings and Conferences and it doesn't mean anything 
for HR... but the people attending your conference can reconozige your talent 
directly.  So dont doubt on attend call of pappers and be evaluated by the 
community. It will be helpful.