Re: username and Password sent as clear text strings

[christopher.riley () r-it at]

An IPSEC solution would put extra load on the server and clients for 
encryption of the traffic. It would also possibly cause problems if the 
users are remote and not part of the domain, as you will need to use 
either a certificate or a PSK (pre-shared key) for the IPSEC. A PSK is 
obviously easier to implement, but weaker than the certificate option. 

> From my view a simpler option would be to recommend that the webapp only 
transmits username password in encrytped format across the wire even when 
SSL is used. Adding another layer of on the wire encryption is just a 
little overkill for something that might or might not be an issue. For the 
client, it would seem like too much hassle for a low possibility hack. If 
the SSL is working then nothing on the wire should be visible in clear 
text. If a Man in the Middle attack of SSL failure (see Debian for 
details) occurs, then the important details of the traffic are still 
encrypted using whatever scheme the client decides on.

Chris

listbounce () securityfocus com@inet wrote on 17.05.2008 01:52:14:

> What does everyone think of implementing a IPSEC solution to resolve the 
issue
> that we've all be talking about. The following are the reason I was 
thinking of IPSEC:
> SSL was designed for client application-to-server application 
authentication 
> and encryption. IPsec can be used end-to-end
>
> I think the best scenario would be to implement both AH and ESP, 
>
> AH provides data origin authentication and data integrity for the entire 
IP 
> packet (with the exception of some fields in the IP header that must 
change intransit).
> ESP provides data confidentiality, data origin authentication, and data 
> integrity for the IP payload. ESP with encryption uses an encryption 
algorithm
> (DES or 3DES) to provide data confidentiality, data origin 
authentication, and
> data integrity for the ESP payload.
>
> The reason to implement both AH and ESP is to protect the IP header
>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Arian J. Evans" <arian.evans () anachronic com>
> > Let me summarize the previous responses and be very clear:
> >
> > This is how web applications work. All of them.
> >
> > There is no effectively way to "hash or encrypted" the password
> > via client-side scripting. There are ways to do it, but in a web
> > application all the code to do this is passed to the client from
> > the server, making it pointless.
> >
> > It is similar to the problem in cryptography of passing the key
> > with the message, but worse. It's passing the key, algorithm,
> > comments, and message all together. In this type of environment
> > it's not possible to do this securely.
> >
> > Hence the use of SSL for transport-layer security.
> >
> > Now...that said, some folks use SWFs and Adobe Air and such
> > for trying to encrypt data in transit, especially if they are using
> > AMF or some binary protocol, but again since everything has to
> > be passed to the client it is completely trivial to reverse engineer.
> >
> > So, again, to conclude:
> >
> > This is how all web applications on the planet work today by design.
> >
> > You can reply to this if you would like to ask more questions,
> > but unfortunately the SF pen-test list is one of the only ones
> > that blocks posts from gmail forwarders so I do not think
> > that you will see my post on the actual list.
> >
> > -- 
> > -- 
> > Arian J. Evans, software security stuff.
> >
> > I spend most of my money on motorcycles, mistresses, and martinis. The
> > rest of it I squander.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:39 AM,  <jfvanmeter () comcast net> wrote:
> > > Hello everyone, and I know this might not be the most correct place 
to post 
> > this questions, but I was hoping to get some feedback on what you 
think the 
> > potential risk would be and how this this could be exploited.
> > > I completed a security review of a web server, that creates a SSL 
connection 
> > between the cleint and the server. Using WebScarab, I could see that 
the 
> > username and password are sent as clear text strings. The log in to 
the server 
> > requires a administrative account.
> > > Do you think there is a large amount of risk, in sending the 
username and 
> > password as a clear text string, since the pipe is encrypted? I was 
thinking 
> > that a man-in-the-middle or sometype of session hijacking attack could 
allow 
> > the account to be compromised.
> > >  I'm working on completing the report for my client and was hoping 
to get some 
> > feedback from everyone so I could pose this to them correcly.
> > > Thank you in advance --John
>
>
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