Re: The legal / illegal line?

[Chris Travers <chris () metatrontech com>]

Craig Wright wrote:
> Do you have an explicit agreement with the third party?
>
> If the answer is No, than all access is prohibited.
>   
Agreed.  But those who unintentionally hide their heads in the sand 
often will give you permission if asked.  My approach is:

1)  "I am concerned about...."
2)  When told that it is under control, I will usually challenge them.  
Get them a little defensive.  "How sure are you?  Is it really worth 
your risk?
3)  I will usually then ask via email "so if you are sure this isn't a 
problem, would it be OK with you if I take a look and check it out?  I 
am pretty sure I can x, y, and z."

Then when I get the go-head, they can't say I didn't have permission.  I 
asked and got it.  I just don't go outside of doing what I said I would.

I used this technique once to show a web-based software developer that I 
could break into all servers with his software installed.  He didn't 
believe me, so I goaded him into giving me permission.  I didn't do 
anything outside the scope of the permission, but I did demo the problem 
to him and he did fix it as a result...

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

> There is no license (implied or otherwise) to pen test a site unless it
> is explicitly granted. There are civil penalties at the least.
>
> You are more likely asking if the action is criminal in nature or not
> and this will vary on the act and juristiction. Without express
> permission for the owner/possessor of the property, it is illegal.
> Criminal and Illegal are not the same thing. All criminal activity is
> illegal, though some illegal actions are not criminal.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com]
> On Behalf Of Barry Fawthrop
> Sent: Friday, 2 March 2007 12:47 PM
> To: pen-test () securityfocus com
> Subject: The legal / illegal line?
>
> Hi All
>
> Curious to hear other views, where does the legal and illegal line stand
> in doing a pen test on a third party company?
> Does it start at the IP Address/Port Scanning Stage or after say once
> access is gained?? very vague I know
>
>
> I'm also curious to hear from other external/3rd party pen-test
> consultants, how they have managed to solve the problem
> Where they approach a client who is convinced they have security, and
> yet there is classic signs that they don't?
> You know that if you did a simple pen-test you would have the evidence
> to prove your point all would be mute
>
> But from my current point that would be illegal, even if no access was
> gained. (maybe I'm wrong) ??
>
> Perhaps this is just a problem here where I am or perhaps it exists
> elsewhere also?
>
> I look forward to your input
>
> Barry
>
>
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