Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd)
From: "Porter, Thomas (Tom)" <tporter () avaya com>
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:45:51 -0400
I have always liked these two quotes regarding pen-testers qualifications, and their analytical challenge. Pentesters... "Desirable characteristics for the penetration testing team include experience, people knowledgeable of the target system, creative folks with bizarre ideas on associations of software modules, software development methods and tools, operating systems' control structure, resource allocation, input/output, human interfaces, and memory management. Successful testers are individuals who are detail oriented, careful thinkers, and persistent." Handbook for the Computer Security Certification of Trusted Systems Naval Research Laboratory --- NRL Technical Memorandum 5540:082A And this for the process: "Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted." A. Einstein My best $.02 Thomas Porter, PHD/AVAYA -----Original Message----- From: Erin Carroll [mailto:amoeba () amoebazone com] Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:42 PM To: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) I don't think the post was a troll at all. People like myself who have been in the industry a long time have noticed that the sophistication of tools available today has reached a point where lack of technical knowledge isn't the unscalable handicap it once was to be a pen-tester. (Notice I didn't say anything about the *quality* of said pen-tester) Until relatively recently, in order to be successful as a pen-tester you had to have some kickass technical abilities. There was no Metasploit or Core Impact, there was no WebInspect or Appscan or Nessus... hell, with few exceptions not so long ago (1996-ish?) you had to roll your own tools for just about anything. Nowadays, you could get by as a pen-tester with something like Core Impact, Metasploit, or Canvas and a host supporting FOSS tools. Would I recommend it? No way. Such activity would only get the low-hanngig fruit and miss other huge vulnerabilities. If it wasn't in an exploit package for their tool, it would be missed. Do I think that a tool monkey could get by as a pen-tester? Yeah, probably. I've seen it happen. Do I consider them "pen-testers"? Barely. I don't think they're *good* (or even moderately competent) pen-testers. But as you said, if they penetrate... However, I think the real point behind what was said is that pen-testing has become commoditized to an extent where communications ability is just as important as the technical skill. In some cases, communication skills can make up for a lack in the geek department. YMMV, -- Erin Carroll Moderator - SecurityFocus pen-test list "Any significantly advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice" On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Arian J. Evans wrote:
Was this post a successful troll, or is the level of technical competence in the pen-testing space so commoditized that "nor does it require deep technical skill" == 2006 pen testing? Wow. I struggle regularly to explain the difference between a "vulnerability assessment" and a pen test, due to the fact that too many folks pimp pen test offerings that are just automated VA with a personal touch, like Paul described. That, however, is the problem, not the answer. It is not pen-testing if there is no penetration. </charlatan> Forgive me, mom, for that sentence, -ae-----Original Message----- From: Paul Melson [mailto:pmelson () gmail com] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:28 PM To: rahul.joshi2 () googlemail com Cc: pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: RE: What is being a pen tester really like? -----Original Message----- Subject: What is being a pen tester really like? rahul.joshi2 () googlemail com wrote:I am currently a Java developer but I'm seriously thinkingof changing paths toa career in security and pen testing. What I would like to know is what is being a pen tester really like?Despite what you may have heard, being a successful pen-tester (meaning, you get hired and make a living at it) is not very hard, nor does it require a lot of very deep technical skill. What it really requires is good verbal and written communication skills, the ability to work well with clients, and the ability to explain security (even inaccurately) in terms of business value. Do those things, and you can be successful. The dirty truth about pen testers is that most of them have a handful of tools and scripts (like Nessus and Retina) and run them with the same configs against every customer and have the same canned recommendations based on the results that their tools spit out. Hell, most vuln scanners spit out their own remediation recommendations for the pen tester to simply hand over to their customers. Additionally, for a pen test to have the appearance of being successful, it only needs to find some of the vulnerabilities present on a network or in an application. Unlike being a network engineer or an sysadmin where your work has to stand up to the 24/7 scrutiny of a live environment, being a pen tester means only needing to be right more often than you're wrong. Not to take away from the skills or experience of any individual pen testers out there. There are some Mario Andretti's out there driving school busses, if I may. PaulM -------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. -------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------
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This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the
Analyst's
Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue
to
rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic
has
the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security
penetration
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------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request () cenzic com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) Erin Carroll (Aug 02)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) Porter, Thomas (Tom) (Aug 02)
- Re: RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) paul_boam (Aug 03)
- Re: RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) R. DuFresne (Aug 05)
- Re: Re: RE: What is being a pen tester really like? (fwd) gazwj (Aug 04)