RE: EC-Counsil (Book Review) Can we wrap this thread up?

["Owen, Matt" <Matt.Owen () dyncorp com>]

 The books themselves for the EC-Council class are not bad. The booklet
they put together and their PDF coursewear has numerous grammatical and
spelling erros. Your experience in the class itself will all depend on
if you have an instructor who is going to stick by the book, or someone
who will bring the class up to date a bit on his own. 


Matt Owen


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Cuff [mailto:lists () securitywizardry com] 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:01 AM
To: Wayne M Burke; randori .; pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: Re: EC-Counsil (Book Review) Can we wrap this thread up?

Hi,
I'm sorry, but it's the content I'd be buying such a book for, not it's
presentation.  My opinion would be different if it were a fictional
novel.

I've not read the book in question, therefore rate my comment
accordingly, but I suspect the review is a little harsh.
I don't think you can go far wrong with the Hacking Exposed books, which
are good for technical reference. However, if it's a well written and
presented book that doesn't require a wheelbarrow to move it, then Chris
McNab's "Network Security Assessment" by O'Reilly is very good and not
at all verbose.

Reverting to the original thread, a course will allow you to hit the
ground running in just a few days, though it will not make you a pen
tester and you will need to consolidate the knowledge gained.  Using a
book allows you to tackle every method from the ground up, there will be
no preinstalled software and you have to do it all yourself, the
knowledge gained is much more useable and will remain in memory for
longer (I'm getting old) However, there will be no instructor giving you
the MOST important value added real world experience, or helping you
with the new syntax for the latest version of sploit X, Y or Z  And a
course gives you subject submersion 0800-1800 and later.  Personally I'm
too easily distracted to give this kind of attention to personal study
with a book.  In summary I like courses, but they are not a panacea.

Now back to my PRINCE2 study with a book that I can't motivate myself to
open. Damn distractions, see what I mean ?

-andy cuff

Talisker's Computer Security Portal
Computer Network Defence Ltd
http://www.securitywizardry.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne M Burke" <wburke () secureye com>
To: "randori ." <randori82 () hotmail com>; <pen-test () securityfocus com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: EC-Counsil


> This is what Amazon has as a review:
>
> "Reviewer: A reader
> The EC-Council calls itself a professional organization, but the
horrendous
> grammatical and punctuation errors contained in this book cast serious
doubt
> upon that claim. I found myself wondering if English is the first
language
> of the author(s). Even the printing is awful, as on every page words
are
> interrupted by empty "spa ce." I can't even address the content--I got
a
> headache just trying to get the sentences to make sense, and finally
had
to
> give up. If so little attention is given to the presentation of the
facts,
> how much confidence can I have that the facts themselves are correct?"
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "randori ." <randori82 () hotmail com>
> To: <pen-test () securityfocus com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:40 AM
> Subject: RE: EC-Counsil
>
>
> > I know you can by the EC-Coucil CEH book at Barnes and Noble for 75
bucks.
> > It should give you a pretty good understanding of what the course
will
> > entail.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972936211/ref=wl_it_dp/10
3-8029621-6183802?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I2YT787IAISYN&v=glance&colid=2
1GEEQ4AL0BVL
> > If you're unsure, give that book a shot and then reasses.
> >
> > -Andre
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Chris Griffin <cgriffin () dcmindiana com>
> > > To: pen test <pen-test () securityfocus com>
> > > Subject: EC-Counsil
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:13:58 -0500
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > Received: from outgoing3.securityfocus.com ([205.206.231.27]) by
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Aug
> > > 2004 06:08:11 -0700
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> > > FILETIME=[12580010:01C48D00]
> > >
> > > List,
> > >
> > > I was looking to see if anyone had any exposure to ec counsil's CEH
> course.
> > > I have heard mixed views on the ec counsil, but nothing about their
> > > courses.
> > > I dont really care about getting a certification, but I wouldnt
mind
> > > getting one also.
> > > My main concern is, learning quality stuff that I can put to use in
a
> > > security career.
> > >
> > > As im sure everyone feels the same, I Dont want to drop my money on
> > > something that looks good,
> > > but really isnt going to help build knowledge.
> > >
> > > for a quick reference, here is a link to the exam/course I found
> > >
> > > http://www.mile2.com/certified_ethical_hacker_training_v3.html
> > >
> > > and http://www.eccouncil.org/CEH.htm
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if this is quality stuff, or is there something
out
> there
> > > better?
> > > (A major factor to me looking at this was, I can find a class local
so
I
> > > dont have to travel)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Chris
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ---
> > > Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes
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> > > guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one
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> > > with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking
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> > > learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend
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> course
> > > taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen
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> > > experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills
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> > > Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.
> http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
> >
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes are
> > guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one
interaction
> > with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking
course,
> > learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend a
> course
> > taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen
testing
> > experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of
an
> > Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.
http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----
> Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes are
> guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one
interaction
> with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking
course,
> learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend a
course
> taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing
> experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of
an
> Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.
>
> http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-----
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes are
guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one
interaction
with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking
course,
learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend a
course
taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing
experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an
Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.

http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes are
guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction
with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking course,
learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend a course
taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing
experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an
Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization.

http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------