Penetration Testing mailing list archives
Re: [PEN-TEST] Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student]
From: Bill Pennington <billp () SUBDIMENSION COM>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:35:17 -0800
I read this last night and must admit I am in a bit of a quandary. First off "if" the RIP student's story is correct I do not believe anything he did was illegal, however I can see why the FBI would think that it was suspicious. From the FBI point of view they feel that they need to track down the person that committed the defacement and bring him/her to justice. The RIP student certainly put himself into the suspect category by his actions. I do not think people would have a problem with the FBI in this case if they would have come in, done an interview and gathered forensic evidedence and left. I am sure you could do a hard drive dump, burn copies of CDs and an interview in a few hours. Then this student could go back to working on getting an education and if he proves to be innocent then no harm is done other than wasting everybody's time. One thing that keeps entering my mind is the confiscation of his CD's that contained MP3s and porn. The FBI stated that they needed to check it for kiddie porn. OK that's great but what does kiddie porn have to do with the yankees.com defacement? I get scared when the FBI can get a search warrant on a person when it "appears" that they have done nothing illegal, then use that warrant to dig through their stuff and find something they have done wrong. I thought search warrants where supposed to be narrow in focus? Am I wrong? On another note when did web site defacements become a federal crime worth this much investigation? I was told by an FBI officer that the FBI will not get involved until the monetary lose goes above 10k. I can't see how a web site defacement can cost that much. Smells like a publicity grab to me. Note: I did not see the defacement I only assume that it is like the 900 other defacements that get posted everyday to attrition.org. A simple file copy and you are back in business. It seems like the FBI could be very busy if it monitored attrition.org and went after every web site that gets defaced in the US. I feel for the FBI guys I really do. They are between a rock and a hard place. Then are way outgunned when it comes to technical expertise and therefore have to trample all over people to get anything done. I think the readers of this list could probably develop a system that would make the FBI's job a lot easier (as far as evidence gathering for computers) and make everyone feel "a little" better after a search, at least they could still have their computer. Sorry for the rant I have not had my coffee yet. :-) -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "DA Smith" <deb () sandstorm net> To: <PEN-TEST () SECURITYFOCUS COM> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 8:09 AM Subject: Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student]
This has been posted to Slashdot and I saw one very good comment on Nanog about this. It bothers me, on the PEN-TEST level as many of us started out by simply looking around. And, from reading posts here and on Bug-Traq, still do. (The person in question details exactly what he did). "FBI confiscates computers of "curious" RPI student in aftermath of the yankees.com hack: Sounds like Operation Sundevil all over again (that one having gone down under SS direction):" from the Nanog post. http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2000/10/31/0481/1037 The comments on Slashdot can be found at: http://slashdot.org/articles/00/10/31/025228.shtml It also reminds me of Steve Jackson's problems a few years ago. -Deb (Of course it's soley my opinion, and no one else's whom I may work for or associate with, etc. Sheesh. Who's opinion could it be?)
Current thread:
- [PEN-TEST] Lost mail.... Alfred Huger (Nov 01)
- [PEN-TEST] Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student] DA Smith (Nov 03)
- Re: [PEN-TEST] Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student] Bill Pennington (Nov 02)
- Re: [PEN-TEST] Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student] Nexus (Nov 02)
- [PEN-TEST] Implications for "Looking around?" [FBI confiscation of allegely curious student] DA Smith (Nov 03)