Re: Reminder: Never connect a generator to home wiring without transfer switch

[Warren Kumari <warren () kumari net>]

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 12:47 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG <
nanog () nanog org> wrote:

> I've been following the thread.
> If I'm dumb enough to back feed through the transformer into the
> downstream side of the downed line, how is it going to be a problem if
> linemen are grounding the phases on *both sides* of the work area.

I suspect that there is a non-zero amount of "in an ideal, perfect world,
when all of the wires are simply lines on a piece of paper, and you can
look at them from the comfort of your office chair, this is easy" - but, in
the real world, linesmen are rushing about and trying to get the lights
back on, cut through the big ash tree that is wedged between the oak and
the pole, etc. Even the nice idea of "well, just take the conductos and tie
'em to ground" means that you need to go trudging through hedges and
vegetation and tree limbs and lions and tigers and bears, often while it is
pissing down with rain or baking hot.

I guess I'm missing how we've moved from the "some people are putting their
lives on the line, let's try to make their life less dangerous" into a
"weeeeell... if they simply followed these set of steps perfectly at all
times, and never made a mistake they'd be fine."
This is NANOG -- I'm sure that we've all followed a set of steps perfectly
and still managed to redistribute BGP into the IGP, or apply an ACL and
lock ourselves out of a box, or types "show run" and watched the router
randomly reboot. Now consider this, but with the added drama of potentially
ending up dead...

W


> That's what Ben seemed to be implying.
>
> -A
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 9:09 AM Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org> wrote:
>
> > Aaron,
> >
> > If you read back in this thread (using the NANOG mailing list archive),
> > you’ll find this has been explained in great detail. In a nutshell, phase
> > grounding won’t help if a generator is energized from the customer end, and
> > this technique was discontinued in the 1970s due to the many deaths that
> > resulted.
> >
> >  -mel
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 7:35 AM Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE <
> > lb () 6by7 net> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, this is a real and dangerous problem.  Today.  Even with grounding
> > > I’m afraid.  Source: I’ve been working in an engineering capacity for 27
> > > years and I have the license you’d need to build a nuclear power plant.
> >
> > Would you care to educate me on this?
> > If you ground the phases on both sides of the work-site, how are you
> > going to end up being a better path to ground?
> >
> > -A

-- 
The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his own making.
  -- E. W. Dijkstra