Re: DualStack (CGNAT) vs Other Transition methods

[Douglas Fischer <fischerdouglas () gmail com>]

The important message on Tore's post IS ALL ABOUT "Sony and Playstation are
doing IPv6 in the wrong way!".

Em seg., 5 de abr. de 2021 às 19:16, Douglas Fischer <
fischerdouglas () gmail com> escreveu:

> Jordi, If I sum the numbers of times "It is a deployment with 25.000.000
> customers, using GPON, DSL and cellular." (or similar)(EN, ES, PT) appears
> on my mail box, I guess will be over 2 hundred...
>
> But every time it hits on:
>  -> Support Tickets! What do they tell us?
>  -> Field Support and L1 Support Guys. Do they agree with that?
>
> Let me be clear:
> - I like IPv6!
> - I encourage the use of IPv6!
> - I think those guys that say "IPv6 won't be adopted" a bunch of lunatics!
>
> But, more important than IPv4, IPv6, "IPv12" is that my customers become
> happy and D'ONT BOTHER ME.
> If I would use IPX/SPX and get them even happier than they are today, I
> would do!
>
> The important message on Tore's post IS NOT "464XLAT is better then Dual
> Stack".
> The important message on Tore's post IS NOT "Sony and Playstation are
> doing IPv6 in the wrong way!".
>
> Could you please help every ISP, Every Gamer, demanding Sony and
> Playstation to do IPv6 the right way, without wanting to "seize the
> occasion" to publicize the IPv6 transition case and consultancy service?
> <CuteCatAskLooking> Please? </CuteCatAskLooking>
>
>
>
> Em seg., 5 de abr. de 2021 às 17:02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via NANOG <
> nanog () nanog org> escreveu:
>
> > Hi Douglas,
> >
> >
> >
> > In a different mailing list, we had a discussion with Tore about his
> > testing and other testing that may not be available in that blog. It was
> > basically about 464XLAT.
> >
> >
> >
> > As you know IPv6-only with IPv4aaS, provides **dual-stack** in the
> > customer LANs, where the PS5 was sitting.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, we concluded in that discussion that there is **no difference** for
> > the PS5 being used with 464XLAT vs “regular dual-stack”, as expected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Further to that, I’ve done a very complete testing, for a customer, with
> > a PS4 in a LAN with 464XLAT and everything worked fine. Unfortunately, as
> > this was contracted by a customer, I can’t disclose all the test set, but
> > believe me it worked. It is a deployment with 25.000.000 customers, using
> > GPON, DSL and cellular.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El 5/4/21 21:32, "NANOG en nombre de Douglas Fischer" <
> > nanog-bounces+jordi.palet=consulintel.es () nanog org en nombre de
> > fischerdouglas () gmail com> escribió:
> >
> >
> >
> > Here goes a link fo an excellent analysis of IPv6 and Playstation
> >
> > This says a lot about why some prefer DualStack.
> >
> >
> > https://toreanderson.github.io/2021/02/23/ipv6-support-in-the-playstation-5.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Em ter., 2 de mar. de 2021 às 07:59, Douglas Fischer <
> > fischerdouglas () gmail com> escreveu:
> >
> > Hello Mark...
> >
> > Yes, until when I was decided to Fight Agins IPv4, I tried the Fixes.
> >
> > But after some time, I saw that very little of the problems were due to
> > inadequacies of the ISP's responsibility equipment.
> >
> >
> > Most of the difficulties stemmed from:
> > A) Choices of end-users in their networks.
> > (Something that the ISP may even try to influence, but that ends up
> > bringing more "childrens" to the support queue, as customers said, "Your
> > company that recommended me to use software X instead of Y, so you have to
> > teach me how to use software X".)
> > B) Lack of adequate support for IPv6 by the companies that provided the
> > service on the internet (eGames, IPTV, SIP-VOIP).
> >
> > After some time beating the dead horse, and mainly seeing that these
> > problems did not happen with Dual-Stack, I decided to do what I was able to
> > do well.
> >
> > Since 1-2 years ago, things have improved a lot in these two points,
> > pointed out as problems that do not concern the ISP.
> > Perhaps it is time to review this approach.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Em qua., 24 de fev. de 2021 às 18:35, Mark Andrews <marka () isc org>
> > escreveu:
> >
> > Well then use one of the encapsulating IPv4AAS mechanisms rather than
> > 464XLAT (DS-Lite, MAP-E). They don’t involve translating the payload
> > between IPv4 and IPv6.  That said what you are reporting below are
> > implementation bugs.  Did you report them to the vendor?  Did you install
> > the fix?  Rewriting is required as you may have native IPv6 clients rather
> > than clients behind a CLAT on the customer side.
> >
> > > On 25 Feb 2021, at 01:48, Douglas Fischer <fischerdouglas () gmail com>
> > wrote:
> > > Is this pain you have lived or verified with first hand testing?
> > >
> > > Yep! A lot!
> > >
> > > LOL gamers can be pretty much insistent...
> > > (haha.jpg +  haha-crying.jpg)
> > >
> > > And Specifically on SIP/Voip over the Internet, with deep analysis at
> > all the parts involved.
> > > The most common issue is incoming Calls to SIP endpoints behind 464Xlat
> > using IPv4 with unidirectional audio.
> > > And several types of causes:
> > >  - CPEs receives the RTP-Stream but doesn't Re-Map it correctly to the
> > IPv4 inside end-point
> > >  - Jool receives the RTP-Stream but ignores it and don't map it to the
> > "fake" v6 address
> > >  - Some APPs do (by some crazy reason) the re-write of Session Layer
> > header to v6 address, and Sip-Proxys ignores it...
> > > After hours and hours fighting against the lions, we decided:
> > > "Let's keep those clients in Dual-Stak and CGNAT" and it just worked.
> > >
> > > And after that, the obvious conclusions:
> > >  - Why will us keep that much options of endpoints connections, if only
> > one solves all the problems?
> > >  - We will need to train the guys on the Dual-Stack/CGNAT Scnario, and
> > 464Xlat Scenario... Knowing about Danos, about Jool...
> > >  - It doesn't scale!
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Douglas Fernando Fischer
> > > Engº de Controle e Automação
> >
> > --
> > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka () isc org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Douglas Fernando Fischer
> > Engº de Controle e Automação
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Douglas Fernando Fischer
> > Engº de Controle e Automação
> >
> > **********************************************
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
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> --
> Douglas Fernando Fischer
> Engº de Controle e Automação


-- 
Douglas Fernando Fischer
Engº de Controle e Automação