Re: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)

[Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>]

You can mitigate some of that by getting contract language in place that
says a carrier must maintain the circuit on the specified and agreed
pathway, and if it's later discovered that it has been moved, you don't pay
for the circuit from the time it was moved until it is restored.

It's a nice bit of leverage to make sure they *DO* pay attention when they
regroom to avoid surprises. :)

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:53 PM Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:

> It's easier when you use carriers that provide usable network maps on
> their web site. Less guess work.
>
> When I got a Windstream wave, I got a PDF that was the device CLLI and
> port number of each device in the path A - Z. Obviously they could change
> it without informing me of the new path, but I at least know at order it's
> different and can ask for details when there are outages or latency changes
> that indicate a change in path.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Steve Naslund" <SNaslund () medline com>
> *To: *nanog () nanog org
> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 2, 2019 11:33:43 AM
> *Subject: *RE: How to choose a transport(terrestrial/subsea)
>
> All true but it is becoming increasingly difficult to determine if a
> provider is using another providers infrastructure (all are at some
> level).  For example, in the SIP world there are several national level
> carriers that are using Level 3s core SIP network and if you were not aware
> of that you could buy trunks from two of the largest SIP trunk providers in
> the US and actually be running on the same network.  Carriers are also very
> often reliant on the ILEC for fiber and last mile access.  Especially in
> non-metro areas getting diverse last mile access could be impossible or
> have huge construction costs.  It is pretty complicated to ensure that your
> carriers are really diverse and much harder to ensure that they stay that
> way.  I have many examples of carrier grooming their own primary and backup
> circuits onto the same L1 path and not realize they have done so.
>
>
>
> Contractual diversity is a great idea that does not work since the
> carriers do not actually know what each other’s network looks like.  So
> let’s say that Sprint and CenturyLink choose the same fiber carrier between
> areas, do you think they would notify each other of that fact?  Do you
> think the fiber carrier would tell them what another customer’s network
> looks like?  You can tell Sprint to not use CenturyLink but there is no way
> to get both of them not to use the same third party.  I suppose you could
> contractually tell a carrier to avoid xxx cable but I would have little
> faith that they maintain that over time.  I seriously doubt they review all
> existing contracts when re-grooming their networks.
>
>
>
> Steven Naslund
>
> Chicago IL
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm of the opinion that, if you need resiliency, you should order
> explicitly diverse circuits from a primary provider and then a secondary
> circuit from a second vendor.
>
> >
>
> > Ultimately, If you want contractually-enforced physical diversity then
> the best options will be single-vendor solutions: Obviously you also want
> to avoid an unknown single-vendor single-point-of-failure, hence the >secondary
> provider. Having two vendors is usually a less than optimal solution since
> neither has visibility into the others' network to ensure the physical
> diversity required for a truly resilient service: what happens if >an
> undersea cable is cut, etc?
>
> >
>
> > The cost of such solutions is often unpleasant to justify, mind.
>
> >
>
> > ~a