Re: Bell outage

[Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com>]

Yeah, I am one of the sales guys for this project across Lake Ontario. It is called Crosslake.


- R.


________________________________
From: Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 4:59 PM
To: Rod Beck
Cc: Jason Lixfeld; nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: Bell outage

( Buffalo resident here.)

That's pretty much true. From Toronto down around the lake, most of the fiber paths follow the QEW, although I think I 
saw a map once that had some down the 406. The challenge then becomes the Niagara River. There are only really 3 good 
points north of Niagara Falls to cross the gorge, the Rainbow / Whirlpool Rapids / Lewiston-Queenston. (There is an old 
train bridge just south of Whirlpool Rapids, but it's pretty decrepit.) Even then, L/Q is the only option that's 
generally feasible to reach, and has any decent infrastructure on the US side.

To my knowledge, most everything goes south to the Peace Bridge . into Buffalo proper, and over to 350 Main Street. 
Just about everyone in this region comes through there, except for Level3. (They're close, down on Scott Street, and 
just stub up to Main. But even they don't actually have a gateway there, they still pull people back to NY/Cleveland.)

I know there is a group trying to do a cable directly across Lake Ontario to my neck of the woods, which would be 
really interesting if it happens. You could save potentially 60k-ish with a direct path vs coming around and down, and 
there's a surprisingly decent volume of in-region glass in the ground on different paths. Plus much of the area north 
of Buffalo to the lake is rural farmland, so building something new wouldn't be terribly hard or expensive either.

Crossing the lake itself is a challenge though. Lake Ontario is really deep, and there are steep underwater cliffs off 
the mouth of the Niagara River (~50m drop over less than 1km) , and again on the eastern side of Toronto. If they can 
work around that to get something run, I think it could be a very intriguing path. I'm a little biased because I think 
it could be a great boon for my area ; putting datacenter space in around here is basically free compared to space up 
there, and you'd be <5ms from Toronto, and ~10ms from NYC.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com<mailto:rod.beck () unitedcablecompany 
com>> wrote:
I am pretty sure most of the fiber runs counterclockwise from Toronto to Buffalo. Just a fact.


- R.


________________________________
From: Jason Lixfeld <jason () lixfeld ca<mailto:jason () lixfeld ca>>
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 11:48 PM
To: Rod Beck
Cc: nanog () nanog org<mailto:nanog () nanog org>; ahebert () pubnix net<mailto:ahebert () pubnix net>
Subject: Re: Bell outage

I think having a lake right in the middle makes a really nice, natural, diverse route between the two locations, as is 
the case with the many routes running east and west around the lake out of both 151 Front and 350 Main.  It’s great for 
non latency sensitive traffic if your short path fails, but it sucks for latency sensitive traffic if your short path 
fails.

What’s the solution in that case if you need geo diverse, low latency routes between two longish haul points that can 
only be connected by one major highway and one major railway, and where there’s a large likelihood that the even a 
single route would have to use both those pathways?  I’m sure it's trivial to get geo diverse routes out of any major 
carrier hotel, but what about the in between bits?

> On Aug 4, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com<mailto:rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com>> 
> wrote:
>
> Well, imagine what happens when you have a body of water like Lake Ontario separating the key hubs on each side of 
> the border, 151 Front Street and 350 Main Street. The fiber is probably stacked parallel around the lake and at 
> certain points is collapsed into one right of way.
>
>
> - R.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces () nanog org<mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org>> on behalf of Alain Hebert <ahebert () 
> pubnix net<mailto:ahebert () pubnix net>>
> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 10:34 PM
> To: nanog () nanog org<mailto:nanog () nanog org>
> Subject: Re: Bell outage
>
>     Well,
>
>     We have a case where 2 paths, between 151 front to somewhere in
> Markham, ended up overlapping 3 times for about 300m total :(
>
>     And to cap the whole thing off...  Enter the building thru the same
> conduit.
>
>     You pretty much need to be onsite supervising the whole thing up.
>
>     And yes their files have the circuits going thru a home, what looks
> like a gas station, an electrical grids, etc =D.  Pretty impressive.
>
>     PS: As rodent, you mean the punks that fire bomb "that" conduit
> under "that" bridge, a few years back?
>
> -----
> Alain Hebert                                ahebert () pubnix net<mailto:ahebert () pubnix net>
> PubNIX Inc.
> 50 boul. St-Charles
> P.O. Box 26770     Beaconsfield, Quebec     H9W 6G7
> Tel: 514-990-5911<tel:514-990-5911>  http://www.pubnix.net    Fax: 514-990-9443<tel:514-990-9443>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net><http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big 
> Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...
>
>
>
> On 08/04/17 15:07, Ken Chase wrote:
> > And can be hard to know without serious dilligence - two of our upstreams
> > happened to go through the same 360 networks conduit in montreal that "saw
> > significant rodent activity". Both were down for 6 hours. A couple customers
> > had some custom apps that relied on the two, each as redundancy to the other.
> >
> > That didnt work out.
> >
> > Getting salesdroids to give you the info can be very hard though, and even
> > tech dept's may not know what secondary providers their fibres run through or
> > where, readily.
> >
> > /kc
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 02:57:22PM -0400, Alain Hebert said:
> > >   Well,
> > >
> > >   Saying they provided you with geographically diverse circuits versus
> > > actually doing it, happen way too often.
> > >
> > > -----
> > > Alain Hebert                                ahebert () pubnix net<mailto:ahebert () pubnix net>
> > > PubNIX Inc.
> > > 50 boul. St-Charles
> > > P.O. Box 26770     Beaconsfield, Quebec     H9W 6G7
> > > Tel: 514-990-5911<tel:514-990-5911>  http://www.pubnix.net    Fax: 514-990-9443<tel:514-990-9443>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net><http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX Inc. – Branché sur le monde – Connected to the World<http://www.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". 
At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...


> PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service that offers you an alternative to "Big 
> Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to providing you ...
>
>
> >