Re: Recent trouble with QUIC?

[chris <tknchris () gmail com>]

This reminds me of something I ran into where I came to a similar
conclusion.

We had a customer who used google ad and docs products very heavily and all
of a sudden they started getting captchas on accessing any google property.

When we reached out to google we were told that they were "blacklisted"
based on suspicious search queries or some kind of query manipulation that
they believe was caused by malware.
We search high and low internally and could not find anything and asked
them to provide specifics about what they saw and they would not and then
we tried to monitor network traffic we realized that google had just
implemented SSL search as a default so we could not easily inspect the
search traffic without putting in infrastructure that could do MITM and
allow us to inspect (which we also suspected doing this could have serious
blowback)

At the end of the day the customer was extremely frustrated because they
used google apps for their entire business and google insisted it was on
their end but we couldnt not get any factual evidence and we would have had
to do some really questionable things to try to go at debugging it on our
own.

TLDR, customer eventually bailed on all their google products because it
scared them and reaching a human at google through regular channels was
near impossible except through mazes of filling out forms and waiting 24hrs
per  email response. Even when we were able to connect with a fellow
googler on nanog who tried to be helpful even though he wasnt on the right
team we still got nowhere

This is really the dark side of the "cloud" (no pun intended), when a
company makes some kind of change or an event occurs with no communication
and it backfires. Even the most basic advanced notifications or just having
proper support available when a change occurs can be more important than
the technical aspects.

chris

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Ca By <cb.list6 () gmail com> wrote:

> On Friday, September 25, 2015, Cody Grosskopf <codygrosskopf () gmail com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','codygrosskopf () gmail com');>> wrote:
>
> > a) yes, 56,000 students and any on Chrome failed. I immediately blocked
> > quic and told users to restart Chrome. Luckily the fallback to good ol'
> tcp
> > saved the day.
> >
> > b) I had this issue a few months ago and it subsided quickly
> >
> > Google reports it's an issue in this version of Chrome and the next
> version
> > will have a little smarts to automatically re initiate the connection
> with
> > TCP automatically without having to disable quic.
> I remained very disappointed in how google has gone about quic.
>
> They are dismissive of network operators concerns (quic protocol list and
> ietf), cause substantial outages, and have lost a lot of good will in the
> process
>
> Here's your post mortem:
>
> RFO: Google unilaterally deployed a non-standard protocol to our production
> environment, driving up helpdesk calls x%
>
> After action: block udp 80/443 until production ready and standard ratified
> use deployed.
>
> And.
>
> Get off my lawn.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Sean Hunter <jamesb2147 () gmail com> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I work for a 2500 user university and we've seen some odd behavior
> > > recently. 2-4 weeks ago we started seeing Google searches that would
> fail
> > > for ~2 minutes, or disconnects in Gmail briefly. This week, and
> > > particularly in the last 2-3 days, we've had reports from numerous
> users
> > on
> > > campus, even those who generally do not complain unless an issue has
> been
> > > ongoing for a while. Those reports include Drive disconnecting,
> searches
> > > failing, Gmail presenting a "007" error, and calendar failing to create
> > > events.
> > >
> > > In fact, the issue became so widespread today, that the campus paper is
> > > writing about it as a last minute article before they're weekly
> > > publication's deadline this evening. (Important in our little world
> where
> > > we try to look good.)
> > >
> > > We aren't really staffed or equipped to figure out exactly what's
> > happening
> > > (and issues are sporadic, so packet captures are difficult, to say the
> > > least), but we found that disabling QUIC dramatically and immediately
> > > improved the experience of a couple of users on campus. We're
> > recommending
> > > via the paper that others do so as well.
> > >
> > > What I'm curious about is:
> > >
> > > a) Has anyone here had a similar experience? Was the root cause QUIC in
> > > your case?
> > >
> > > b) Has anyone noticed anything remotely similar in the last few
> > > weeks/days/today?
> > >
> > > We're an Apps domain, so this may be specific to universities in the
> Apps
> > > universe.
> > >
> > > If anyone has any useful information or hints, or if someone from
> Google
> > > would like more information, please feel free to contact me, on or off
> > > list.
> > >
> > > Thanks for reading and have a great night everyone! Happy Wednesday!