RE: Greenfield 464XLAT (In January)

["Bob Evans" <bob () FiberInternetCenter com>]

I mean marketing/salesman like pitch. When you have something so new and
familiarity is always the desire of the day by IT managers (hence, all the
cisco only fans), it's better to be upfront and pitch it as new and
improved before others decide to call it something else and choose a
different network.

We began with IPv4. Then many of us members at both ARIN and NANOG all
agreed to push IPv6. I looked at all the methods available and decided we
would build native IPv6 network and give the customer both. Soooo, the
networks are separate from each other and provided to customers on via
separate ports. There is no place in our network where you can hop from
IPv6 to IPv4 and visa versa. The customer can install such gear in their
LAN and make routing those decisions at their end. (Now years later, a
very tiny percentage of customers have link on their IPv6 port.) If anyone
complains, it's the customers choice of gear or routing issues at their
end, as nothing in our network is NATed. Thereby, reducing our potential
service labor costs of dealing with a customers understanding of trace
routes in NAT space - and other similar issues that they try to make your
staff's problem.

Thank You
Bob Evans
CTO




> A network needs users or it is useless. I am curious as to how your native
> IPv6 network communicated with (if at all) the v4 world. Has anyone
> confronted you about your network being IPv6? I might have problems with
> reading comprehension, but in your statement " So you might position to
> pitch upfront your new world Internet service from day one.", do you mean
> pitch as in, setup; or pitch as, into the trash.
>
> Thank you,
> - Nich Warren
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Evans [mailto:bob () FiberInternetCenter com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:20 AM
> To: Nicholas Warren
> Cc: nanog () nanog org
> Subject: Re: Greenfield 464XLAT (In January)
>
> Actually , there is no better audience that I know of to ask this
> question. And my information might be more marketing related and hardware
> skeptical.
>
> My IPv6 direction choice was much easier than yours. You need to figure
> out how to build an IPv4 network today from scratch in a world where the
> IPv4 bus ride seats have largely assigned.
>
> When we setup our IPv6 ability, I chose to build a native IPv6 network.
> Tunneling and translation devices left me wondering about packet flow at
> those gateway points. Aside from verbal sales assurances, I still had the
> feeling that under loads these devices would break momentarily or cause
> latency issues. For web and email services it's not a big issue. Sure
> everyone could show me a twitch game playing well or a video conference
> call, but what happens when the device is under load or attacked ? Will
> service latency be detected by a cleaver well known gamer ? One that
> points to the issue as a flaw that makes others think our network is
> unusable for all kinds of services ? Overcome issues like "this ISP forces
> you to use IPv6" ? The hardware costs can be small compared to consumer
> perceptions marketing dollars. So you might position to pitch upfront your
> new world Internet service from day one.
>
> European and Comcast has been implementing NAT 6 related things for years.
> My son made me move his connection to the smallest bandwidth DSL on ATT
> for his games. However, our Comcast has been fine perfectly for watching
> Amazon and Netflix streaming (most of the time).
>
> Thank You
> Bob Evans
> CTO
>
>
>
>
> > Sincere apologies if this e-mail is inappropriate for this audience,
> > We are (going to be) a startup ISP building a new network from the
> > ground
> > up. I was hoping I could get an opinion, or two, on how everyone feels
> > about 464XLAT. I saw what everyone was saying about it in the 'Android
> > doesn't support DHCPv6' discussion, but what about in the wireline side
> > of
> > things? The main reason we are even considering 464XLAT as opposed to
> > dual-stack (the latter is, in my ignorant opinion, the better option.)
> > is
> > the fear of IPv4 depletion that we think might hit ARIN between now and
> > the start of next year; causing us to pay a premium for IPv4 in the gray
> > market. So I guess the real question here would be: is our fear real, or
> > is it just bug on the wall? If our fear is real, what should we
> > implement
> > so that our users can still get to the v4 internet, are we even thinking
> > soberly by suggesting 464XLAT?
> > Thanks,
> > - Nich