Re: Data Center operations mail list?

[Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>]

AFMUG got that straightened out. I don't know the details of how. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rafael Possamai" <rafael () gav ufsc br> 
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net> 
Cc: nanog () nanog org 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:03:42 PM 
Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? 


My 2 cents: I use it for other services and haven't had any issues over the past few months, but one problem I was 
having with SES + Mailman is that even though my account was out of their sandbox, I still had some smtp errors due to 
"email not verified" which is annoying. So I had to tell mailman to wrap every message, hence the via NADCOG you 
probably seen before. Now that option is back to default by using Chris' server. 



Their support sent me a canned message so I decided not to waste too much time there. As long as 99% of members get 
their emails I don't think it really matters whose server they are going through. 


Honestly, most things out there are designed to fit the 95th percentile scale, so if you are on either extreme, one is 
better off figuring out how to adapt than to require the whole system to change, that is, if your email server is 
blocking more messages than it should, fix your email server, don't try to fix the whole world wide web. 














On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Mike Hammett < nanog () ics-il net > wrote: 


I'm on a mailing list hosted at Amazon, uses their API, etc. Other than the bumps in the migration to Amazon, I haven't 
seen any real issues. Hundreds of people on the list posting hundreds (total, not each) of messages per day. No 
complaints. *shrugs* 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Rich Kulawiec" < rsk () gsp org > 
To: "Rafael Possamai" < rafael () gav ufsc br > 
Cc: nanog () nanog org 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:46:00 PM 
Subject: Re: Data Center operations mail list? 

On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 08:18:59PM -0500, Rafael Possamai wrote: 
> Quick update: I moved away from Amazon SES to a private smtp server 
> provided by Chris, who is also helping moderate the list. 

That's a good idea. I noticed. 

> I left Amazon SES configured as a backup since the bounce rate after 
> thousands of emails peaked at only 0.08% 

The bounce rate is not an effective metric, for a number of reasons, not 
the least of which is that some unknown and unknowable number of sites 
are configured to quarantine email. (This is a horrible idea that I've 
railed against many times, but that notwithstanding, ignorant people do it 
every day.) Any site which quarantines mail will not generate a bounce 
(or a reject) but will silently consign incoming traffic to a location 
which may, or may not, be eventually seen by a human being. 

The bounce rate yields precisely zero insight into the extent of this 
problem. Nor does it yield any insight into other similar (related) 
problems which are not manifested via the SMTP transaction. 

The best course here is to completely avoid any contact with the 
horribly-mismanaged Amazon cloud operation until such time as those 
running it demonstrate a bare minimum of professionalism -- which, 
to date, they have unfortunately not. In this particular case, it 
would be preferable to defer/queue any outbound mail traffic instead of 
attempting to deliver via Amazon: there is unlikely to be anything 
traversing that mailing list which would suffer by being delayed 
by an hour or a day. 

---rsk