Re: Low cost WDM gear

[Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae () me com>]

Michelle speaks English.

On Apr 16, 2015, at 09:04 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN <lists () mtin net> wrote:

Does anyone have a English speaking rep for FiberStore? I have a client with a difficult time ordering some custom 
stuff. Language barrier is a big issue.



Justin Wilson j2sw () mtin net
http://www.mtin.net Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers
http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics
http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange 

On Feb 7, 2015, at 4:30 PM, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae () me com> wrote:

I will live vicariously though your experiences with them. I'm good on FiberStore. :-)

Thanks for the feedback..

On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal () snappytelecom net> wrote:

Maybe, your experience was the pivotal event that became a turning point in their customer service attitudes...

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support () Snappytelecom net
From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae () me com>
To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>
Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo () 1telecom com br>, "NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:24:18 PM
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear

Point taken on the specs.. Still doesn't excuse poor customer service and tech support. I never expect to be told that 
no refund will be issued when I am dissatisfied with the product. A request for RMA because something is not working as 
expected should not have to be escalated to the President of the company.

Other than that I am sure FiberStore is a great company :-)

On Feb 07, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal () snappytelecom net> wrote:

My point is......
... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs.
If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect).

Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can make mistakes...
Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check 
their work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too.

While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that 
mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue.

I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, 
they took it back no questions asked.

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support () Snappytelecom net
From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae () me com>
To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>
Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo () 1telecom com br>, "NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear

That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the data. I can tell you a few stories about 
specs and some MAJOR fails by a major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When you engage the 
engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say 
for a certain distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect.

That is pretty basic.

On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal () snappytelecom net> wrote:

More power to you ....

I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared FiberStore to another Vendor"...

It was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is better than a Ford"....
Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ? and Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?


Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting improved...

One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at different times don't have the same specs !

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support () Snappytelecom net
From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae () me com>
To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>
Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo () 1telecom com br>, "NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear

That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure the chosen candidate will support the use case. 
I have now performed an A/B comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux and optics.

On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal () snappytelecom net> wrote:

If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output, insertion loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation 
for your link, then using anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do not meet specified specs.

If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy stuff based on whatever, then it does not matter 
who the mfg. is, you are very very likely to be surprised in a bad way.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo () 1telecom com br>
To: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae () me com>
Cc: "NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM
Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have this
passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your multiplex
solution... Is a active solution...
We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to buy 10G
sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...
Enviado via iPhone 
Grupo Connectoway
Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae () me com> escreveu:

Hi Enviado,

I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them. I
needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics, I saw
a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path which
created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the tolerances for
our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion loss
mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic, you
may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I also
notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power output when
compared to other vendors.

Thanks

Kenneth

On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <rodrigo () 1telecom com br>
wrote:


Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B when
you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?
I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a test
about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for 80km... (
only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch access with
ssh and pinging tests...
What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is this
solution good?
Thanks!!!

Enviado via iPhone 
Grupo Connectoway

Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae <kenneth.mcrae () me com> escreveu:
Mike,
I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI Hardware
equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment (excessive
loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without
threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the OSI
equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels).
On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín <mmg () transtelco net> wrote:
Hi Mike
I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective
solutions.
Ekinops & Packetlight.
On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:
I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than $500)
muxes
to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they don't
work
so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides (therefore
must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of channels
and
have a distance limitation.
What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
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