Re: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it back

[Warren Bailey <wbailey () satelliteintelligencegroup com>]

My dad told once me they could indict a ham sandwich. I never really knew what meant..

A law does not mean an automatic grant of constitutionality. I'm all for following laws, but at what point does the 
public just say.. The threat isn't large enough to warrant a protcologist visit via NSA to see if you've been a good 
boy. I'm innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonably doubt by a jury of my peers, it doesn't work any other way. 
You either respect the document that establishes basic principals for this land, or you do not. As I said before.. 
Snowden would have had a world wife frenzy of activity had he included "facebook is going to a pay model" instead of 
legit information about national war crimes.


Sent from my Mobile Device.


-------- Original message --------
From: Sam Moats <sam () circlenet us>
Date: 09/06/2013 10:56 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: The US government has betrayed the Internet. We need to take it back


The problem being is when you do have a provider that appears to be
secure
and out of reach, think lavabit, that provider will not survive for
long.
The CALEA requirements, and Patriot Act provisions will force them into
compliance.
There only options are to:
Disobey the law, unacceptable in my opinion
Close down services, noble but I need to eat and you probably want to
keep getting email
Compromise your principles and obey the law, the path often choosen.

Sam Moats

On 2013-09-06 13:20, Nicolai wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 02:27:32PM +0000, Naslund, Steve wrote:
>
> > If everyone cancelled their gmail accounts, stopped using Google
> > search,
> > and stopped paying for Google placement and ads, their stock would
> > go to
> > zero nearly overnight.  Again, no one seems to care about the issue
> > enough to do this because I have seen no appreciable backlash
> > against
> > these companies.
>
> I think Joe 6mbps sitting at home reads that everything he uses has
> been
> subverted.  He doesn't know what alternatives exist, and doesn't have
> the technical knowledge neccessary to find them on his own.  And
> faced
> with a false choice -- stop using the Internet, or continue using it
> as
> he knows how -- he chooses the one that retains his ability to
> communicate with family and friends and keep up on the things he
> cares
> about.
>
> Schneier is saying we need to build better options for Joe 6mbps,
> competing with the PRISM-compatable services, so that
> privacy-respecting
> services become known and commonplace.
>
> Nicolai