Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you?

[Greg Whynott <Greg.Whynott () oicr on ca>]

for vendors who we were not getting the goods from,  I've found calling your sales rep much more efficient than 
anything you can say/ask/beg/threaten the tech on the phone.    Sales guys have the inside numbers to call,  the clout 
to get things moving as they generate revenue for said vendor.    his pay comes from you,  you pay him,  he works for 2.

-g


On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Thomas Donnelly wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:39:19 -0600, Brandon Kim
> <brandon.kim () brandontek com> wrote:
>
> > to which they would try and play the "well most people don't mix gear"..
> >
> >
> >
> > ha! Funny if you responded with, "Oh really? Thanks I didn't know that,
> > I guess I'll get all HP...who do I talk to, to return this Cisco router?"
>
> I've threatened that one against Juniper and minutes later I had an
> engineer on the phone. At 3:30am. Funny how once you mention buying
> another vendor they raise an eyebrow.
>
> > > From: Greg.Whynott () oicr on ca
> > > To: brandon.kim () brandontek com
> > > CC: khomyakov.andrey () gmail com; nanog () nanog org
> > > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:20:06 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you?
> > >
> > > just a side note,  HP probably was the most helpful vendor i've dealt
> > > with in relation to solving/providing inter vendor interoperability
> > > solutions.   they have PDF booklets on many  things we would run into
> > > during work.  for example,  setting up STP between Cisco and HP gear,
> > > (
> > > http://cdn.procurve..com/training/Manuals/ProCurve-and-Cisco-STP-Interoperability.pdf
> > > ).
> > >
> > > At the time the other vendor in this case (cisco) flat our refused to
> > > help us.  this was a few years back tho,  things may of changed.  I'd
> > > ask support "you are not telling me i'm the _only_ customer trying to
> > > do this" …   to which they would try and play the "well most people
> > > don't mix gear"..
> > >
> > > HP's example should be the yard stick in the field.
> > >
> > > -g
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 10, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Brandon Kim wrote:
> > >
> > > > To your point Andrey,
> > > >
> > > > It probably works both ways too. I'm sure HP would love to finger
> > > point as well. I remember reading for my CCNP one
> > > > of the thought process behind getting all Cisco is the very reason
> > > you pointed out, get all Cisco!
> > > > How convenient though for Cisco to do that, I wonder if they are
> > > being sincere(sarcasm).
> > > > Wouldn't it a perfect world for Cisco to just have everyone buy their
> > > stuff...I think it's a cop out though and you really should
> > > > try to support your product as best you can if it is connected to
> > > another vendor.
> > > > I'm sad to hear that TACACS took that route. I hope they at least
> > > tried their hardest to support you.....
> > > > > From: khomyakov.andrey () gmail com
> > > > > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:35:36 -0500
> > > > > Subject: Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you?
> > > > > To: nanog () nanog org
> > > > >
> > > > > There have been awfully too many time when Cisco TAC would just say
> > > that
> > > > > since the problem you are trying to troubleshoot is between Cisco and
> > > > > VendorX, we can't help you. You should have bought Cisco for both
> > > sides.
> > > > > I had that happen when I was troubleshooting LLDP between 3750s and
> > > Avaya
> > > > > phones, TACACS between Cisco and tac_plus daemon, link bundling
> > > between
> > > > > juniper EX and Cisco, some obscure switching issues between CAT and
> > > > > Procurves and other examples like that just don't recall them
> > > anymore.
> > > > > Every time I'm reminded that if you have a lot of Cisco on the
> > > network, the
> > > > > rest should be cisco too, unless there is a very good
> > > technical/financial
> > > > > reason for it, but you should be prepared to be your own help in
> > > those
> > > > > cases.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vendors love to point at the other vendors for solutions. At least
> > > in my
> > > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > My $0.02
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrey
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Greg Whynott
> > > <Greg.Whynott () oicr on ca>wrote:
> > > > > > I've tried to use other vendors threw out the years for internal
> > > L2/L3.
> > > > > > Always Cisco for perimeter routing/firewalling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from my personal experience,  each time we took a chance and tried
> > > to use
> > > > > > another vendor for internal L2 needs,  we would be reminded why it
> > > was a bad
> > > > > > choice down the road,  due to hardware reliability,  support issues,
> > > > > > multiple and ongoing software bugs,  architectural design choices.
> > > Then
> > > > > > for the next few years I'd regret the decision.     This is not to
> > > say Cisco
> > > > > > gear has been without its issues,  but they are much fewer and
> > > handled
> > > > > > better when stuff hits the fan.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the only other vendor at this point in my career I'd fee comfortable
> > > > > > deploying for internal enterprise switching,  including HPC
> > > requirements
> > > > > > which is not CIsco branded,  would be Force10 or Extreme.  it has
> > > always
> > > > > > been Cisco for edge routing/firewalling,  but i wouldn't be opposed
> > > to
> > > > > > trying Juniper for routing,  I know of a few shops who do and they
> > > have been
> > > > > > pleased thus far.    I've little or no experience  with many of the
> > > other
> > > > > > vendors,  and I'm sure they have good offerings,  but I won't be
> > > beta
> > > > > > testing their firmwares anymore (one vendor insisted we upgrade our
> > > firmware
> > > > > > on our core equipment several times in one year…).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cisco isn't a good choice if you don't have the budget for the
> > > smart net
> > > > > > contracts.   They come at a price.   a little 5505 with
> > > unrestricted license
> > > > > > and contract costs over 2k,  a 5540 about 40k-70k depending on
> > > options,
> > > > > > with a yearly renewal of about 15k or more…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -g
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andrey Khomyakov
> > > > > [khomyakov.andrey () gmail com]
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
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