RE: 365x24x7 (sleep patterns)

[Mark Green <ktm200exc () hotmail com>]

Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months...  Sleep patterns take time to adjust.  
Jumping between day and night shifts will burn out even the most motivated employee.  

Mark Green

 




> From: nanog-request () nanog org
> Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 39, Issue 46
> To: nanog () nanog org
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:52:19 +0000
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
>    2. Re: New hijacks, and lots of them  (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>    3. Re: 365x24x7 (Peter Hicks)
>    4. Re: 365x24x7 (Charles Mills)
>    5. RE: 365x24x7 (Greg Moore)
>    6. Re: 365x24x7 (Steve Clark)
>    7. Re: 365x24x7 (Marshall Eubanks)
>    8. Re: 365x24x7 (Alex Brooks)
>    9. RE: 365x24x7 (Sanders, Randall K)
>   10. Re: 365x24x7 (Tony Finch)
>   11. Re: 365x24x7 (harbor235)
>   12. Re: 365x24x7 (Paul Graydon)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:14:05 -0400
> From: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
> Subject: 365x24x7
> To: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimD9jYVzM_hv21y9LHzObR3RVG0YA () mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
> 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>
> thoughts, experience?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:17:06 -0700
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg () tristatelogic com>
> Subject: Re: New hijacks, and lots of them 
> To: nanog () nanog org
> Message-ID: <2971.1302873426 () tristatelogic com>
>
>
> In message <5824.1302780126 () tristatelogic com>, I wrote:
>
> >   http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
> >   http://www.47-usc-230c2.org/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>
> My apologies to anyone and everyone who tried to get at these files.
> It seems that my provider may perhaps have recently developed some
> rather odd ideas about packet filtering for static broadband lines.
> Until I can get the problem worked out, the following alternative URLs
> ought to do instead:
>
>    ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-1.txt
>    ftp://ftp.47-usc-230c2.org/pub/20110414-snowshoe-2.txt
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:17:48 +0100
> From: Peter Hicks <peter.hicks () poggs co uk>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <066F653E-C0F8-4026-9FE0-3A8899378D0C () poggs co uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 15 Apr 2011, at 14:14, harbor235 wrote:
>
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>
>
> Although more geared up for on-call, http://blog.hinterlands.org/2010/07/running-an-oncall-rota/ is a very useful 
> resource.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:25:02 -0400
> From: Charles Mills <w3yni1 () gmail com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>, NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTint8hnfenSQZBHoS3x4hAS_P78JNA () mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
> working 12 hour shifts.
>
> In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
> and 44 the next.  It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
> also doubles as a retention tool for some employees.  You might have
> to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >
> > thoughts, experience?
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
> -- 
> =====================================
> Charles L. Mills
> Email: w3yni1 () gmail com
> =====================================
> Need server hosting, DR or colocation services?? See me!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:37:54 -0400
> From: Greg Moore <mooregr () greenms com>
> Subject: RE: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>, NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.2806.1302882739.16627.nanog () nanog org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could cover weekends and then had extra coverage 
> as needed during the week.
>
> I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harbor235
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:14 AM
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: 365x24x7
>
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
> 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>
> thoughts, experience?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:48:42 -0400
> From: Steve Clark <sclark () netwolves com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: Charles Mills <w3yni1 () gmail com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <4DA84CBA.5030409 () netwolves com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 04/15/2011 09:25 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
> > I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
> > working 12 hour shifts.
> >
> > In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
> > and 44 the next.  It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
> > also doubles as a retention tool for some employees.  You might have
> > to get creative to have all the days work out but it can be done.
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM, harbor235<harbor235 () gmail com>  wrote:
> > > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > > need
> > > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > > required
> > > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> > >
> > > thoughts, experience?
> > >
> > > Mike
> I worked once in a production plant. They had 4 crews a,b,c,d and worked 6 days on 2 off. It was rotating shifts. As 
> an example crew A worked 6
> days 8-4 was off 2 days then started the next shift on 4-midnight, then midnight to 8. So at any one day 3 of the 4 
> crews were working and the other
> crew was off.
>
> -- 
> Stephen Clark
> *NetWolves*
> Sr. Software Engineer III
> Phone: 813-579-3200
> Fax: 813-882-0209
> Email: steve.clark () netwolves com
> http://www.netwolves.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:52:11 -0400
> From: Marshall Eubanks <tme () americafree tv>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: Greg Moore <mooregr () greenms com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <CAC57439-9CCC-42E3-8CB4-FA4141D8F3DA () americafree tv>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:
>
> > When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could cover weekends and then had extra coverage 
> > as needed during the week.
> >
> > I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.   
>
> When I worked with NASA and the Navy on remote locations that needed full time staffing, the rule of thumb was
> 5 people and 4 shifts was the absolute minimum, and the people had to be motivated enough to pull 12 hour shifts on a 
> regular basis (i.e., this
> was very bare bones). The 4th shift was needed during the weekends. 
>
> Anything less, and you would have uncovered periods if, say, 2 people got sick simultaneously.
>
> Regards
> Marshall
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: harbor235
> > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:14 AM
> > To: NANOG list
> > Subject: 365x24x7
> >
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >
> > thoughts, experience?
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:27:32 +0100
> From: Alex Brooks <askoorb+nanog () gmail com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: nanog <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikkVH_yk=97oWgq_A0YLxZ9dxNVXg () mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>
> Well, if you feel like being "nice" to your employees, or want to stop
> them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work, (or if
> you're having to set something up abroad), the Working Time Directive
> can be a useful guideline.
>
> (Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
> and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858926
> if you're board, ignore the silly bits)
>
> But basically, in general, workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:
>
> - work no more than six days out of every seven, or 12 out of every 14
> - take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
> - work a maximum 48-hour average week
>
> And in general, night workers:
>
> - should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
> period, averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks
>
> If you're an employer, be glad you're in North America :-)
>
> HTH,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:31:48 -0500
> From: "Sanders, Randall K" <Randall.K.Sanders () xo com>
> Subject: RE: 365x24x7
> To: nanog <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID:
>       <B0E45381691B4E4188ECEE2507142CFC5C7B3660 () txplanexch01 corp inthosts net>
>       
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Have you taken into account number of alarms per hour, inbound call volume for repairs, and how much repair is done 
> at the first tier level?  Bare minimum staffing in a busy environment?
>
> Randy Sanders
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Brooks [mailto:askoorb+nanog () gmail com] 
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9:28 AM
> To: nanog
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
>
> Well, if you feel like being "nice" to your employees, or want to stop
> them from making mistakes a few months/years in to shift work, (or if
> you're having to set something up abroad), the Working Time Directive
> can be a useful guideline.
>
> (Full details at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive
> and http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858926
> if you're board, ignore the silly bits)
>
> But basically, in general, workers aged 18 and over are entitled to:
>
> - work no more than six days out of every seven, or 12 out of every 14
> - take a 20-minute break if their shift lasts for more than six hours
> - work a maximum 48-hour average week
>
> And in general, night workers:
>
> - should not work more than an average of eight hours in a 24-hour
> period, averaged over a reference period of 17 weeks
>
> If you're an employer, be glad you're in North America :-)
>
> HTH,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:36:35 +0100
> From: Tony Finch <dot () dotat at>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID:
>       <alpine.LSU.2.00.1104151530010.19442 () hermes-2 csi cam ac uk>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
>
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
> > do I need to fully cover operations?
>
> Hours in the working year  =  8 * 5 * 48 = 1920
> Hours in the calendar year = 24 * 7 * 52 = 8736
> Ratio                                    = 4.55
>
> Tony.
> -- 
> f.anthony.n.finch  <dot () dotat at>  http://dotat.at/
> Rockall, Malin, Hebrides: South 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 at first in
> Rockall and Malin, veering west or northwest 4 or 5, then backing southwest 5
> or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good,
> occasionally poor.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:52:02 -0400
> From: harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: NANOG list <nanog () nanog org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinLSBedu3hq8hg4ihjEMcOHHbRjGg () mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Guys,
>
> Thanx alot, there is some great stuff here, also some stuff I had not
> thought of.
>
> thanx again,
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Tony Finch <dot () dotat at> wrote:
>
> > harbor235 <harbor235 () gmail com> wrote:
> >
> > > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
> > > do I need to fully cover operations?
> >
> > Hours in the working year  =  8 * 5 * 48 = 1920
> > Hours in the calendar year = 24 * 7 * 52 = 8736
> > Ratio                                    = 4.55
> >
> > Tony.
> > --
> > f.anthony.n.finch  <dot () dotat at>  http://dotat.at/
> > Rockall, Malin, Hebrides: South 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 at first in
> > Rockall and Malin, veering west or northwest 4 or 5, then backing southwest
> > 5
> > or 6 later. Rough or very rough. Occasional rain. Moderate or good,
> > occasionally poor.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 05:52:13 -1000
> From: Paul Graydon <paul () paulgraydon co uk>
> Subject: Re: 365x24x7
> To: nanog () nanog org
> Message-ID: <4DA869AD.9070202 () paulgraydon co uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 4/15/2011 3:14 AM, harbor235 wrote:
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> > need
> > to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> > required
> > 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
> >
> > thoughts, experience?
> >
> > Mike
> For what it's worth, was part of a datacenter operations department that 
> had a 24x7 team.  4 shifts, 4 staff on each shift (1 was supervisor who 
> did same work as the rest, 1 'point of contact' who stayed in the office).
> 4 days on, 4 days off, 12 hour shifts, 8-8.  Shift teams would alternate 
> between day and night (so 4 day, 4 off, 4 night, 4 off, repeat ad 
> infinitum).  During the day that was bolstered by 6 day-staff, Monday to 
> Friday, who would have a staggered start through the day (IIRC 2 start 
> at 8, 2 at 9, 2 at 11)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of NANOG Digest, Vol 39, Issue 46
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