Re: IP4 Space

[Shon Elliott <shon () unwiredbb com>]

My first reply to this thread. I've been kind of tracking it.

I would love to move to IPv6. However, the IPv6 addressing, I have to say, is
really tough to remember and understand for most people. Where is a four number
dotted quad was easy to remember, an IPv6 address.. not so much. I wished they
had made that a little easier when they were drafting up the protocol specs.
basically, you need technical knowledge to even understand how the IP address is
split up. I wished ARIN would waive the fee for service provider's first block
of IPv6 as well. It would help make the dual stack deployment easier.

I know IPv4 is running out. I understand the situation. I just wished they had
put a little more thought into the user experience side of the addressing. You
can all flog me now if you want. I expect it. I'm green on IPv6. I would love
the education if I am wrong.

-S


Mark Newton wrote:
> On 06/03/2010, at 1:06 AM, David Conrad wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Mark Newton wrote:
> > > On 05/03/2010, at 2:50 PM, David Conrad wrote:
> > > > When the IPv4 free pool is exhausted, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll quickly find that reclaiming pretty much 
> > > > any IPv4 space will quickly become worth the effort.
> > > Only to the extent that the cost of IPv6 migration exceeds the cost
> > > of recovering space.
> > You're remembering to include the cost of migrating both sides, for all combinations of sides interested in 
> > communicating, right?  In some cases, that cost for one of those sides will be quite high.
>
> Yes, but I only need to pay the cost of my side.
>
> > > There's sure to be an upper-bound on the cost of v4 space, limited by the
> > > magnitude of effort required to do whatever you want to do without v4.
> > The interesting question is at what point _can_ you do what you want without IPv4.  It seems obvious that that point 
> > will be after the IPv4 free pool is exhausted, and as such, allocated-but-not-efficiently-used addresses will likely 
> > become worth the effort to reclaim.
>
> That isn't a likely outcome, though.  We'll never need to do "without IPv4",
> it'll always be available, just in a SP-NATted form which doesn't work very 
> well.
>
> Continuing to put up with that state of affairs comes with its own set of
> costs and obstacles which need to be weighed up against the cost of 
> migrating to dual-stack (unicast global IPv6 + SPNAT IPv4) to extract yourself
> from the IPv4 tar-baby.  Not migrating will be increasingly expensive
> over time, the costs of migrating will diminish, each individual operator
> will reach their own point when staying where they are is more expensive
> than getting with the program.
>
> And most of the participants on this mailing list will probably reach
> that point sooner than they think.
>
> My mom will probably never see a need to move beyond IPv4.  But her next
> door neighbor with the bittorrent client and WoW habit probably will, and
> any content provider who's interested in having a relationship with their
> eyeballs which isn't intermediated by bollocky SPNAT boxes probably will too.
>
> Horses for courses.
>
> What I do know is that this "migrating to IPv6 is expensive so nobody wants
> to do it," is a canard that's been trotted out for most of the last decade
> as a justification for doing nothing.
>
> As an ISP that's running dual-stack right now, I can tell you from personal
> experience that the cost impact is grossly overstated, and under the 
> circumstances is probably better off ignored.
>
> Just sayin'.
>
>   - mark
>
> --
> Mark Newton                               Email:  newton () internode com au (W)
> Network Engineer                          Email:  newton () atdot dotat org  (H)
> Internode Pty Ltd                         Desk:   +61-8-82282999
> "Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton"  Mobile: +61-416-202-223