nanog mailing list archives
Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks?
From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike () swm pp se>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:12:05 +0200 (CEST)
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Sean Donelan wrote:
If Comcast had used Sandvine's other capabilities to inspect and drop particular packets, would that have been more acceptable?
Yes, definately.
Dropping random packets (i.e. FIFO queue, RED, not good on multiple-flows)Dropping particular packets (i.e. AQM, WRED, etc, difficult for multiple flows) Dropping DSCP marked packets first (i.e. scavenger class requires voluntary marking)Dropping particular protocols (i.e. ACLs, difficult for dynamic protocols)
Dropping a limited ratio of the packets is acceptable at least to me.
Sending a TCP RST (i.e. most application protocols respond, easy for out-of-band devices)
... but terminating the connection is not. Spoofing packets is not something an ISP should do. Ever. Dropping and/or delaying packets, yes, spoofing, no.
Changing IP headers (i.e. ECN bits, not implemented widely, requires inline device)Changing TCP headers (i.e. decrease windowsize, requires inline device)Changing access speed (i.e. dropping user down to 64Kbps, crushes every application) Charging for overuse (i.e. more than X Gbps data transferred per time period, complaints about extra charges) Terminate customers using too much capacity (i.e. move the problem to a different provider)
These are all acceptable, where I think the adjust MSS is bordering on intrusion in customer traffic. An ISP should be in the market of forwarding packets, not changing them.
-- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike () swm pp se
Current thread:
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks?, (continued)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Marshall Eubanks (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Marshall Eubanks (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Mikael Abrahamsson (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sam Stickland (Oct 26)
- RE: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 25)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Iljitsch van Beijnum (Oct 26)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Geo. (Oct 26)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 26)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Mikael Abrahamsson (Oct 26)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 26)
- Message not available
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 27)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Mikael Abrahamsson (Oct 28)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 28)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Mikael Abrahamsson (Oct 28)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 28)
- RE: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? michael.dillon (Oct 29)
- Re: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Stefan Bethke (Oct 29)
- RE: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Fred Reimer (Oct 29)
- RE: Can P2P applications learn to play fair on networks? Sean Donelan (Oct 29)