nanog mailing list archives
Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf
From: Sean Donelan <sean () donelan com>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:20:08 -0500 (EST)
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote:
I hear enough from people who *do* work at Some Other Place. :)
Hearing about it is not the same as experiencing it first-hand.
Never claimed *our* solution would work everywhere (heck, I even admit it isn't 100% effective for *us*). A very large chunk of what *we* do would be doomed to failure at any organization where the problem set includes "make a profit selling connectivity to cost-conscious general consumers".
The Other ISPs do all of the things you mentioned, except they don't givetheir techs free rooms. Instead they give out $50 or $100 gift cards for in-home or in-store techs from several consumer electronics chains to fix customer computers; which may be similar to the level of expertise you would get from unpaid residential dorm techs. However, the environment and populations aren't necessarily comparable.
Understanding why those things have been doomed to failure is an important difference. It isn't because ISPs unwilling to try them. But instead
its because ISPs have tried those things (and many other things). Theyfail not because of the cost side of the equation, but because they don't have much effect on the problem over the long-term in that environment and population.
If someone (vendor, academic, etc) comes up with something that works well for the environment and population facing the general public ISP, there are a lot of ISPs with money constantly asking what can they buy/pay/do to fix it. However, they are also very skeptical, because
this is a well-travelled road, and they've seen a lot of claims that didn't pan out.
Current thread:
- Re: RBL for bots?, (continued)
- Re: RBL for bots? Gadi Evron (Feb 15)
- Re: RBL for bots? Valdis . Kletnieks (Feb 15)
- botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Gadi Evron (Feb 15)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Peter Moody (Feb 15)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Gadi Evron (Feb 15)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Rich Kulawiec (Feb 16)
- rDNS naming David Barak (Feb 20)
- Re: RBL for bots? Gadi Evron (Feb 15)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Valdis . Kletnieks (Feb 15)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Sean Donelan (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Valdis . Kletnieks (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Sean Donelan (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Eric Gauthier (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Gadi Evron (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Eric Gauthier (Feb 26)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Sean Donelan (Feb 27)
- resnets and naming (was: Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf) Steven Champeon (Feb 16)
- Re: resnets and naming Scott McGrath (Feb 16)
- Re: botnets: web servers, end-systems and Vint Cerf Sean Donelan (Feb 16)
- Re: RBL for bots? J. Oquendo (Feb 16)