RE: Abuse procedures... Reality Checks

["Frank Bulk" <frnkblk () iname com>]

If they're properly SWIPed why punish the ISP for networks they don't even
operate, that obviously belong to their business customers?  And if the
granular blocking is effectively shutting down the abuse from that
sub-allocated block, didn't the network operator succeed in protecting
themselves?  Or is the netop looking to the ISP to push back on their
customers to clean up their act?  Or is the netop trying to teach the ISP a
lesson?  

Of course, it doesn't hurt to copy the ISP or AS owner for abuse issues from
a sub-allocated block -- you would hope that ISPs and AS owners would want
to have clean customers.  

Frank 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On Behalf Of
william(at)elan.net
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:58 PM
To: Fergie
Cc: rsk () gsp org; nanog () merit edu
Subject: Re: Abuse procedures... Reality Checks

On Sat, 7 Apr 2007, Fergie wrote:

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>
> - -- Rich Kulawiec <rsk () gsp org> wrote:
>
> 1. There's nothing "indiscriminate" about it.
>
> > I often block /24's and larger because I'm holding the *network*
operators
> > responsible for what comes out of their operation.  If they can't hold
> > the outbound abuse down to a minimum, then I guess I'll have to make
> > up for their negligence on my end.  I don't care why it happens -- they
> > should have thought through all this BEFORE plugging themselves in
> > and planned accordingly.  ("Never build something you can't control.")
>
> I would have to respectfully disagree with you. When network
> operators do due diligence and SWIP their sub-allocations, they
> (the sub-allocations) should be authoritative in regards to things
> like RBLs.
>
> $.02,

Yes. But the answer is that it also depends how many other cases like
this exist from same operator. If they have 16 suballocations in /24
but say 5 of them are spewing, I'd block /24 (or larger) ISP block.
The exact % of bad blocks (i.e. when to start blocking ISP) depends
on your point of view and history with that ISP but most in fact do
held ISPs partially responsible.

-- 
William Leibzon
Elan Networks
william () elan net