Re: Big List of network owners?

["william(at)elan.net" <william () elan net>]

Again so what is it you'are asking:
 1. Function to list ip blocks for the same organization that often causes
    abuse reports for your customers?
    - see spews and spamhaus lists, for biggest abusers they do pretty good
      job of tracking any ip blocks assigned to them
 2. Function to list ip blocks announced by the same organization per ASN?
    - you can already do it yourself - "sh ip bgp regexp _asn_")

And yes if somebody wants to abuse public database, they'll find a way to 
get the data they want - but at least on the surface it should not be 
easy. So even if one bad guy already has this data, I'm not interested in 
making it easy for another bad guy to get it. 

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, John Underhill wrote:

> Again guys.. just in the thinking out loud stage..
> But it does surprise me that this information is not freely available, and 
> accessible to all without hindrance, registration or obligations of any 
> kind.
> There is the argument that this information could be used by the wrong 
> people to do the wrong thing, but I am guessing many of those people already 
> have this data. Arguably, the people most likely to be causing problems, are 
> the very ones who seek anonymity through a process that is apparently not as 
> defined and regulated as it needs to be in order to assure proper 
> identification and subsequent accountability.
> It is all about that accountability, action and response. If badhosting.com 
> insists on harboring CWS, spam engines, and the like, wouldn't it be better 
> if everyone knew, down to the last host, every address they own? If this 
> information were freely available, posted in plain view, script friendly, 
> and a dynamic resource, I suspect a lot of problems could, (at least in 
> part), be made to disappear, or at the very least, automated tracking 
> systems, and abuse reports could be made to be more reliable.
> Every enterprise is absolutely dependent on its financial viability, if the 
> owner of badhosting.com woke up on Monday morning to find half of north 
> america was no longer visible to his clients, he would either a) grow a 
> conscience, or, b) go out of business - either one would be just fine with 
> me.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "william(at)elan.net" <william () elan net>
> To: "John Underhill" <stepnwlf () magma ca>
> Cc: <nanog () merit edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Big List of network owners?
>
>
> > Please describe exactly what you want to do with the data. If its specific
> > action based on some network name or per their ASN, I can probably deliver
> > it (assuming this function has community value for more then just your
> > needs). But providing entire list - is too open for abuse and also may
> > violate RIR policies for not redistributing bulk whois data in "bulk 
> > form".
> >
> > If you want to do it yourself - feel free to contact every RIR (its only 4
> > of them) and sign for bulk whois agreements (and RIPE and APNIC already
> > provide their whois database free actually if you look around) and write
> > scripts and program to put it all in the database format that you want.
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, John Underhill wrote:
> >
> > > I realize that there may be no way to contact many of these people, but, 
> > > it
> > > is a step towards identifying problem networks. If badhosting.com is
> > > responsible for a given percentage of the garbage that comes through our
> > > pipes, and I can leverage user input to identify this, then I can use 
> > > this
> > > to create more responsive filtering policies..
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Gary E. Miller" <gem () rellim com>
> > > To: "John Underhill" <stepnwlf () magma ca>
> > > Cc: <nanog () merit edu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Big List of network owners?
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > Yo John!
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, John Underhill wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ... but I am looking for a
> > > > > way to make it more reflexive, automated, and give the users a more
> > > > > direct
> > > > > course of action that releases our help desk from some of the burden..
> > > >
> > > > And that is exactly why it will not happen.  A lot of the registrars
> > > > have gone over to the other side.  Ever try to get any domain contact
> > > > info out of nameking?
> > > >
> > > > RGDS
> > > > GARY
> > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Gary E. Miller Rellim 20340 Empire Blvd, Suite E-3, Bend, OR 97701
> > > > gem () rellim com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588 Fax: +1(541)382-8676
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> > > >
> > > > iD8DBQFBgWGE8KZibdeR3qURAhOxAJ95psP3g0yjv1Wr6vz5yPQPuCaE4gCdEP/e
> > > > erE90DWlIxpcUFLljcMW98k=
> > > > =dvcd
> > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----