Re: State Super-DMCA Too True

["Stephen Sprunk" <stephen () sprunk org>]

As reading your message both hurts my eyes and would take excessive effort
to reformat for a reply, I won't do so.

However, I do question the credibility of anyone who cites Cheech and Chong
to back up his position.

S

Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
----- Original Message -----
From: "todd glassey" <todd.glassey () worldnet att net>
To: "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen () sprunk org>; "Michael Loftis"
<mloftis () wgops com>; "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden () geek net>
Cc: "North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes" <nanog () merit edu>
Sent: Monday, 31 March, 2003 17:07
Subject: RE: State Super-DMCA Too True


> Stephen -  my responses in caps -
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu]On
> Behalf Of
> Stephen Sprunk
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:32 PM
> To: todd glassey; Michael Loftis; Robert A. Hayden
> Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes
> Subject: Re: State Super-DMCA Too True
>
>
>
> Thus spake "todd glassey" <todd.glassey () worldnet att net>
> > Yes but this is specific to the argument on whether an ISP
> > should be accountable for what people do with its
> bandwidth
> > and what I think is ultimately going to happen is that
> these
> > laws are going to be put in place and as part of enforcing
> > these there will be some arrests.
>
> If you ship pot via FedEx, does the delivery guy go to jail
> too?
>
> THIS IS A REALLY BAD EXAMPLE - IF YOU WANT I WILL GIVE YOU
> THE ADDRESSES OF HALF A DOZEN MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISTRIBUTORS
> IN SAN FRANCISCO AND OAKLAND, AND THEY CAN ANSWER THAT ONE -
> I THINK HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IF YOU ARE IN A CITY THAT DOES
> NOT PROSECUTE THE MEDICINAL USE OF MARIJUANA - THEN NO ONE
> GOES TO JAIL FOR SHIPPING IT.
>
>  No.
> If you make obscene phone calls, does the operator go to
> jail too?
>
> DEPENDS ON WHETHER THEY DIALED THE PHONE FOR YOU.
>
> No.
>
> BUT IF YOUR AGENT OPENS THE PACKAGE TO INSURE THAT IT HAD A
> CORRECT ADDRESS ON IT AND FINDS IT CONTAINS CONTRABAND -
> THEN ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE? - BETTER YET - IF THEY OPENED THE
> PACKAGE TO INSPECT THE DELIVERY ADDRESS AND THEN REFUSED TO
> APPLY ANY DILIGENCE ON THE PACKAGES PAYLOAD OR OTHER ADDRESS
> DATA BEYOND THAT OF A LOCAL DELIVERY ADDRESS,  MY TAKE IS
> THAT THIS IS WHY THERE WILL BE SO MANY ADMIN'S IN JAIL IN
> THE COMING YEAR OR TWO - WITH THEIR ATTITUDES, THEY MAY
> OUT-NUMBER THE DRUNK DRIVERS IN CALIFORNIA PRISONS SOON.
>
> ANYWAY - THE OPENING OF THE MAIL TO DO ANYTHING INCLUDING
> DELIVER IT OBLIGATES YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY AND ALL THE
> DATA REPRESENTED IN THE HEADER IS REAL AS WELL. IF YOU PARSE
> THE RFC822 DATA TO PROCESS IT THEM PROCESS IT. THAT'S THE
> POINT AND THAT THIS IS NOT AN OPTION UNDER THESE LAWS - ITS
> JUST THAT TO DATE THE TIER-2/3 ISP'S HAVE NEVER BEFORE BEEN
> THREATENED WITH JAIL FOR NOT GOING THE WHOLE ROUTE...
>
> Common carrier status exists for this very reason.
>
> I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE ISP'S ARE BY DEFINITION NOT COMMON
> CARRIERS. ONLY THE TIER-1 PROVIDERS WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS
> CC'S UNDER INTERNET DEFINITIONS, AND ANYONE THAT OPERATES
> MORE THAN ONE TIER-1 SERVICE, AS IN A TIER-2 OR TIER-3
> OPERATION TOO, HAS A LARGER ISSUE THAT ALL OF THEIR
> INFRASTRUCTURE LIKELY HAS TO COMPLY -
>
> Unfortunately, it
> probably means we'll have to stop filtering things like spam
> and DoS, since
> filtering on content inherently violates common carrier
> protection --
>
> NO - QUITE THE OPPOSITE - ACTUALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT FOR
> ANY SERVICE FOR WHICH YOU ARE THE ORIGINATING OR TERMINATION
> ENTITY, THAT "THE DATA REPRESENTED IN ANYTHING YOU PROCESS
> MUST BE RELIABLE AND TRUE". THAT MEANS IF YOU ACCEPT EMAIL
> FROM SOMEWHERE AND PROFFER IT ONWARD TO YOUR CLIENT'S, AND
> YOU DON'T BOTHER TO FILTER AND PROOF IT - THAT YOU STAND A
> GOOD CHANCE TO "GET YOUR PEE-PEE WHACKED BY THE BAILIFF" -
> TO QUOTE FROM CHEECH AND CHONG.
>
> see
> the smut suit against AOL a few years ago.
>
> I KNOW -  I WAS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN ONE OF THEM. I ALSO AM
> THE INDUSTRY LIAISON TO THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION'S
> INFORMATION SECURITY COMMITTEE, BUT I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY SO
> IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT.
>
> S
>
> Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert
> Einstein
> CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He
> throws the
> K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen
> Hawking