RE: FW: Tech contact for Qwest?

[Eric Germann <ekgermann () cctec com>]

At 02:43 PM 8/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
> In my opinion, EVERY junior engineer should spend some time in the NOC under
> the guidance of more Senior Engineers before moving on in the organization.

I think today most are a little too liberal with the term engineer.  Those
of us who went the traditional route of education and earned the title as
an ME, EE or CE sometimes bristle that we're lumped in with the guy who
just passed his CNE from the books.

In ten years with my degree, I always reflect on what the dean of the
College of Engineering said in his closing statements before we graduated:

"The purpose of Engineering School is not to memorize formulas, tables and
charts.  The purpose of Engineering School is to teach you how to think."

And that we did.  I have a BSEE.  I don't do any circuit design or power
system design.  However, every day I use the same skills I learned then.
Break it down into manageable pieces.  Solve each piece.  If it isn't
manageable or solvable, loop until you get it into managable chunks.

Some would argue we should be a little more judicious in the application of
the term Engineer, especially for the 18-22 y/o folks hired off the street
with no prior NOC and/or network experience.  Actually, in some states, its
a legal title.

In the Professional Engineer certification system, one doesn't even sit for
the exam until one has spent at least five years as an EIT, or
Engineer-in-training, an 8 hour comprehensive exam where EVERYTHING you
could possibly have remotely looked at in your education is fair game.  As
an EE, I had loads of fun remembering Statics and Dynamics from four years
earlier, or Thermodynamics from Freshman Physics.

Maybe its time we had something like that in the network world, more than
the 6 tests and you're in club that is the CNE/MCSE program ...

Maybe then "engineers" would heed the warnings of their software vendors
about loading code on their frame switches.

> And those Senior Engineers should have a program in which these junior
> engineers must go through before allowing them to interface with other ISP's
> to troubleshoot problems. If you know the tools that they need, then put
> them in a position to succeed. And remember most of all, that it's not
> beneath you to nurture and mentor people.
>
> ---------------------------
> Marcellus Smith
> Manager - Peering and Field Operations
> Cable and Wireless USA
> Phone:(703) 715-7191
> email: marcellus () cw net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu]On Behalf Of
> Charles Sprickman
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 2:03 PM
> To: fulton () uit org
> Cc: nanog () merit edu
> Subject: Re: FW: Tech contact for Qwest?
>
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Aug 1999 fulton () uit org wrote:
>
> > Perhaps if we can get the "higher-ups" to stop hiring noc newbies based on
> > certs and begin hiring based on raw intelligence...then maybe we can get
> > the overall clue factor back to a reasonable level.
>
> That's true I think.  Most of the people I ask questions of posess neither
> a CCIE nor a comp-sci degree.  Some do, but not enough to convince me that
> real-world experience and contact with knowledgeable people isn't a valid
> "education".  How many folks here that consider themselves a "leader" in
> net ops at their place of employ were formally educated?
>
> Charles
>
> > On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Chris Flores wrote:
> > > That's a fairly strong statement to make. Large telcos/ISPs tend to
> through
> > > "newbie" engineers into situations where a experienced or senior
> engineer
> > > belongs. Let's face facts - there are not enough IP
> engineers/technicians to
> > > fill all the needed positions. Companies need to either have more peer
> > > review or expect the "clueless"  attitude toward customers. No one could
> > > expect a entry level engineer to handle complex ISP BGP issues when they
> > > barely understand VLSM/CIDR. The industry is much larger than previous
> > > years(obvious), thus more entry level engineers.

==========================================================================
  Eric Germann                                        CCTec
  ekgermann () cctec com                                 Van Wert, OH 45891
  http://www.cctec.com                                Ph:  419 968 2640
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