nanog mailing list archives
Re: Horrible Service Agreements
From: Phil Howard <phil () charon milepost com>
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:15:02 -0600 (CST)
Jon Lewis writes...
I don't think anyone disagrees that spam is a major problem and not an acceptable thing to have customers doing. What Forrest was complaining about was much too harsh an anti-spam policy. I doubt Forrest would have a problem with "If your network is repeatadly used to distribute spam and no effort is made to stop this, service may be terminated." What he was complaining about was that they were basically saying "If your network is ever used to distribute spam, we have the right to terminate service immediately and levy severe financial penalties." This would mean that if they ever have a customer spam, even if they nuke the account as soon as they know about the spam, they might lose that T1 and a lot of money. Whoever wrote those clauses was either way too naive, militant, or just entirely without clue.
But it is very common for lawyers to write the terms that way for many contracts. It gives them leverage. They don't usually exercise it, but should there be some extremely severe case, they want to make sure they have the power to do so without having to balance it against the losses relative to their financial planning. I don't like it, but that's the way it works. If you are in a position to be able to bargain terms, most businesses generally do so. It sounds like Forrest's problem is that he is not in such a position.
You make contract clauses all your customers have to sign that requires them to pay all costs and overhead for any problems they cause.Good luck collecting on that when some 12 year old sends out make money fast. Are you willing to bet your connection to the net on that?
I didn't agree with it. I just pointed it out as a fact of life. You'll find lots of lousy contracts in business when you look at them in terms of what _might_ happen. The pendulum certainly has swung the other way as providers have discovered that they are getting stung bad with regard to spam. Even AGIS has discovered they are sinking in the quicksand and are trying to get out. Maybe we should take an assessment on just what terms are in NEW connection contracts being let these days.
Especially considering his remoteness. $2500/month for port and loop sounds pretty good to me. Many of the "bigger" backbone providers charge that just for the port fee.
I'd let him have a T1 port into my two T1 ports for just $1000/mo if he would haul his own line here to Texas. But he'd be the fool to do that. Given that price, it might well be a near loss for the backbone. He needs to find the price level that will get his sales rep dialing up the legal department. -- Phil Howard | stop6it7 () anywhere org w2x4y3z9 () s5p1a1m8 edu stop6886 () dumb4ads net phil | crash727 () lame7ads edu die2spam () no0where edu no1spam1 () dumbads2 com at | die1spam () spam2mer org suck0it5 () no08ads3 edu stop1ads () spam1mer net milepost | stop5640 () lame4ads net end7it05 () no5place edu stop3it2 () spammer0 net dot | w0x3y3z9 () lame6ads edu ads9suck () lame3ads net w7x5y6z7 () anywhere net com | die8spam () no9place net eat87me6 () nowhere5 net stop1it9 () dumb3ads edu
Current thread:
- Horrible Service Agreements Forrest W. Christian (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Phil Howard (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Jon Lewis (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Phil Howard (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Eric Osborne (Nov 29)
- Message not available
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Jay R. Ashworth (Nov 30)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Jon Lewis (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Forrest W. Christian (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Phil Howard (Nov 29)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Jerry Scharf (Nov 30)
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Phil Howard (Nov 29)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Horrible Service Agreements Sean Donelan (Nov 30)