Re: We are not hearing the route to your SNEWS server.

[Joe <joe () zippo com>]

The following is a copy of communications we have had with AGIS. I think
this extended "outage" at CIX, and unwillingness to peer at other points
for the benefit of their own customers, is symptomatic of more things to come.

============================================================================
===============


> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:36:51 -0700
> To: georgey () agis net
> From: Joe <joe () zippo com>
> Subject: Re: We are not hearing the route to your SNEWS server.
> Bcc: ddrex () netplus net, kr () crl com
>
> Hi George,
>
> This is not intended to fuel an already aggravated situation, but only to
offer some exchange of information. Kendall is obviously frustrated in not
being able to resolve this issue with AGIS, but if you look at the
substance of his communication, I think there is a pretty clear message. In
light of the long term outage of AGIS based CIX equipment, why wouldn't
AGIS peer at another point ? 
> Once again, if there is more to this story I'd like to know. We
communicate via CRL through many peering points to virtually every location
on the Internet. AGIS is the only one that is unreachable and forcing
peering through CIX. It would seem that even with AGIS CIX equipment up,
you're forcing your internal traffic to run through your network to get to
CIX rather than peering out at the closest point. The result is more
traffic on your own network.
> It's a little difficult to believe a major Internet service provider such
as AGIS would have a 4 day outage at a NAP that could not be repaired.
> It seems to me that the service you are selling is suppose to provide full
Internet access to your users. Every time you limit access to other
Internet locations, you diminish the value of your service by reducing the
content your users have access to. You are providing less than full
Internet access. Starting to look like you are trying to go to where AOL
was two years ago, with your customers relying on intra AGIS services to
provide all of the content.
> When you cut connection with CRL, you broke commercial arrangements
between your own ISPs and services they have secured for their own
customers. I can only request that AGIS works with CRL to establish a more
reasonable level of peering. CRL is a quality organization and one that can
only add to the value of the service AGIS offers to its customers.
> Joe
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Kendall Holback <kh () crl com>
> > To: Joe <joe () zippo com>
> > Subject: Re: We are not hearing the route to your SNEWS server.
> >
> > Joe, 
> >
> > Thanks for the input from your customers. This helps in getting people to 
> > move on resolving problems like this. For the last several months we have 
> > made numerous attempts to establish peering with AGIS (other than at the 
> > CIX) and have had little or no response from them. We actually maintain 
> > peering at more peering points and NAPs than AGIS and we have full peering 
> > with every other major network aside from AGIS. Sometimes, it takes 
> > a barrage of complaints directly from customers to a certain provider in 
> > order for them to move on an issue like this. I realize this is 
> > ridiculous and we have made every attempt to put the politics aside 
> > and get it resolved, but unfortunately this is the way some organizations 
> > operate. If AGIS is not supporting their connecitvity to the CIX and is not 
> > making any effort to establish alternative peering, then they are not to be 
> > considered a first-tier Internet Service Provider and do not have 
> > connnectivity to the entire Internet.  We are currently announcing all of 
> > our networks at all peering points - AGIS is choosing not to accept 
> > them. I strongly encourage any person/organization that is affected by 
> > this to contact AGIS directly (as this customer has done) and voice their 
> > dissatisfaction. If possible, please Cc me as well.
> >
> > --Kendall 
> >
> > ==================================================================
> > Kendall Holback                         phone: (415) 837-5300 x122
> > CRL Network Services                    fax:   (415) 392-9000
> > kh () crl com                                                        
> >
> > > > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:19:02 -0700
> > > > To: George Yedinak <georgey () agis net>
> > > > From: Joe <joe () zippo com>
> > > > Subject: Re: We are not hearing the route to your SNEWS server.
> > > > Bcc: ddrex () squid netplus net
> > > > In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970523080201.0091a9f0 () agisgate agis net>
> > > >
> > > > Hi George,
> > > >
> > > > Good to hear from you. We have received a lot of e-mail from retail and
> > > commercial accounts in regard to the issue (e-mail is on Netcom) and I
> > > wasn't sure who to contact at AGIS.
> > > > Our upstream provider is CRL. In discussions with them they have
indicated
> > > they only peer with AGIS at CIX and, since there is a hardware outage,
AGIS
> > > custmers cannot get through. CRL went on to say they have not been able to
> > > get AGIS to peer at any of the other NAPs CRL currently connects through.
> > > > I'd really like to take this out of political context and see if we can
> > > get this resolved. If there is anything we can do in communicating with
our
> > > upstream provider, or anything we can do here, just let us know. We only
> > > want to restore service to the people that have used the service for a
long
> > > time.
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > At 08:02 AM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > >  I have received an e-mail from a customer of ours who is not able to
reach
> > > > > your snews site.  I tried to see if we heard any routes to the site,
and we
> > > > > do not.  If you could contact your upstream provider and see if they are
> > > > > announcing this to us, we would be very appreciative.
> > > > >
> > > > >  George Yedinak
> > > > >  AGIS Network Operations.
> > > > >
> > > > > ====================================
> > > > > From: David Drexler <ddrex () squid netplus net>
> > > > > Subject: Customer support request
> > > > > To: noc () agis net
> > > > > Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 06:14:16 -0500 (CDT)
> > > > >
> > > > > Certain destinations through the chicago router have been unreachable
for
> > > > > over 24 hours now.  For example:
> > > > >
> > > > > traceroute to snews.zippo.com (207.211.168.98), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
> > > > > 1  irx1 (206.250.192.1)  1.612 ms  1.478 ms  1.412 ms
> > > > > 2  agis-netplus.chicago2.agis.net (205.254.172.69)  47.677 ms
44.711 ms
> > > > > 42.783 ms
> > > > > 3  * agis-netplus.chicago2.agis.net (205.254.172.69)  106.251 ms !H *
> > > > >
> > > > > We know that you know -- there's already been discussion of it in the
> > > > > mailing list.
> > > > >
> > > > > What we want to know is why it's taking so long to fix, and when we can
> > > > > expect it will be resolved.  This problem is impacting us severely.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please assign a ticket number and reply.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > > Technical Support        voice: (405) 848-4424
> > > > > Internet Access Plus     fax:   (405) 840-9604
> > > > > Oklahoma City                ddrex () netplus net
> > > > >
> > > > > ======================================
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank You.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > =========================================
> > > > >          George Yedinak    -     NOC Technician
> > > > >                      Apex Global Internet Services, Inc. (AGIS)        
> > > > >
> > > > > Network Operations Center  -  24x7  Emergency Line  (313) 730-5151
> > > > >             Business Office/Sales - (313)730-1130  sales () agis net
> > > > > =========================================
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -