nanog mailing list archives
Re: question about per. hack
From: k claffy <kc () nlanr net>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:14:41 -0700
i think this is the first time. i'm cc'ing NANOG since several folks there are wondering exactly why i think the FBI should get involved and why i think eugene kashpureff should be jailed. unfortunately i think it's the FBI we need to convince and i'm not sure they read nanog (i have the packet traces to prove all of the above, from multiple servers.) you may be the one the FBI needs to hear from then what i'm terribly confused about is why MCI won't just cut them off. what alternic is doing is a violation of MCI's AUP, as well as of law and morality. mmm,. . pretty words (really) but as we all know by now, the current state of Internet stats collection and our elegantly ambiguous role as not-really-common-carrier-but-don't- regulate-or-tariff us-either-please- just-leave-us-alone-we'll-be-fine renders it fairly non-trivial for MCI (or any other backbone provider, in fact MCI's probably closer then elseNSP) to provide the FBI with _proof_ that Eugene was using mci as his testosterone transport mechanism, so even their oodles of well-dressed lawyers can't prove he's violating AUP and it's not like mci can demand to know what box he's playing from, what his routing policy was at the time, etc. if you'd like to get a deposition from him, i'm sure mci would gladly forward it to the feds. or if your tcpdump packets incriminate him adequately, that would likely help them too. MCI can't do much unless law enforcement asks them to, which would require not only law enforcement w/clue but also your log data proving the attacks used their pipes (if you're comfortable they're not violating any not-really-existent-but-if-they-did-exist- they'd-be-unenforceably-ambiguous-anyway privacy laws) the internet just isn't there yet (there = with enforceable and sensical laws; i think we'll have to punt on morality) and we're apparently in much more of a rush to implement faster push technology and verifiable hit counts (for ad pricing schedules yum yum) than integrity. sigh++; fwiw mci is not happy about it either and is not Doing Nothing but if you have something that would help - k
Current thread:
- Re: question about per. hack Paul A Vixie (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack rbenn (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack Paul A Vixie (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack Marc Hurst (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack George Herbert (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack Marc Hurst (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack Paul 'Shag' Walmsley (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack David Mercer (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack MFS (Jul 22)
- Re: question about per. hack Paul A Vixie (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack MFS (Jul 22)
- Re: question about per. hack rbenn (Jul 21)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: question about per. hack Francois Beauregard (Jul 21)
- Re: question about per. hack Ray Davis (Jul 22)
- Re: question about per. hack Tim Gibson (Jul 22)
- Re: question about per. hack Ray Davis (Jul 22)
- Re: Alternic crap Tim Gibson (Jul 23)
- Re: question about per. hack Ray Davis (Jul 22)