Re: CIDR,Sprint and the Big Guys.

[Avi Freedman <freedman () netaxs com>]

>       I think we all agree that CIDR is a good thing, I have no 
> problems with it and feel that we should use it as best we can. The 
> problems that I see, yes I know this has been said before, it is getting 
> harder and harder for the little guy to get IPs from the Nic. Now that 
> Sprint is saying that you now need a /16 to route over their network, I 
> don't see the nic just handing out /16s like they did with the /19 or 
> before that the /20s etc.. 

When did Sprint say that they're not hearing > /16s from external peers?
I think I missed that.

And I can assure you, the NIC has never to my knowledge allocated IP space
based on Sprint's filters.  Proper allocation; notification via SWIP or
rwhois of the allocation; and the speed & size of previous blocks are the
criteria that I'm aware of.

>       And Just because I have nothing else to do, except work, sleep, 
> work, internet, eat, work, sleep, I did some looking around.
>
> [21]/export/home/c/cnielsen> whois 208.0.0.0
> Sprint (NETBLK-SPRINTLINK-BLKS)
>
>    Netname: SPRINTLINK-BLKS
>    Netblock: 208.0.0.0 - 208.3.255.0
>
>       Here now shows that Sprint is getting a /15 from the nic and that 
> they can now server more customers, move their ips around with little 
> problem, etc. But what about some other ISP? Can they get a /15? Nope. 
> But I bet you that if Sprint wanted to or even MCI for that matter, they 
> could get a /14 or a /13 from the nic.

Or maybe even larger.  Both MCI & Sprint have consistently filled /14s 
like the above block.  I'm not sure why the NIC doesn't allocate them
exponentially larger address space.  Maybe they're not requesting it.
 
>       How can we solve this problem? How can we make sure that everyone 
> has equal access to IP addresses to make IP addresses usable around the 
> Net, save on router memory etc? This is how I would do it.
>
>       Move into the 206.10.0.0 - 206.15.0.0

We went through a /19; upgraded it to an overlapping /18; and then upgraded
it to an overlapping /17; all within 3 months.  If you're really filling
address space with new & renumbering customers in a timely fashion, the NIC
has shown a willingness to reserve (strictly unoficially) contiguous address
space for you to expand into.  I must have missed the announcement that 
/16s would be required for entry into Sprint routing tables in new IP space.
Where in the IP range does that requirement start?  The first time, Sean
mostly made people aware of the Sprint filtering policies to come before the
IP space that the filtering applied to was allocated.

>       Any ISP/NSP that can provide a good network outline, showing not 
> only how they plan to put into pratice but show their current setup, 
> locations, etc. will be assigned a /16 in the range above. That would 
> give about 1200 ISPs /16s. 

I don't see this happening.  I think it's a fine idea to set aside space
for up to 6 months to see if people will expand into it, but it is ture
that there are only so many /16s to go around and probably > 200 new ISPs
starting up every month, each of which will want that much space and will
take a loooong time to fill it.  

>       Now, to make sure they are being conservative with their 
> networks, routing tables, CIDR, etc. Explain to the ISP that the only way 
> they are going to get a /16 is if they renumber their whole network. This 
> will return a lot of larger /20 and above address space to the nic and 
> reduce the size of the routing table on the net. 

Who's going to do the explaining?  

>       Now, why can't something like this be done? Trust me, If you gave 
> me /16, I would have all my customers re-number, re-number all my hosts, 
> etc in about 6 months, which is about the timeline I would bive.

Talk with the NIC.  If you've gone through a /19 already in 3-6 months
from initial allocation to you, it's possible that you could get your
next allocation from the NIC if you agree to renumber within N months
and are multi-homed.

>       But than again, we can go along as we do, the larger keep getting 
> larger and the rest of us have to fight for IPs.
>
>       ok, now off the soap box.
>
> Christian Nielsen
> Vyzynz International Inc.       cnielsen () vii com,CN46,KB7HAP
> Phone 801-568-0999              Fax 801-568-0953
> Private Email - Christian () Nielsen Net   BOFH - cnielsen () one dot PS :)

Avi