re. Fun issue. Most Of Us Have Black Box Recorders in our Cars

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Andrew C Burnette <acb () acb net>
> Date: March 7, 2010 2:53:28 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net
> Cc: jpowers () data-rights com
> Subject: Re: [IP] Most Of Us Have Black Box Recorders in our Cars

> Dave,
>
> For IP if you wish.
>
> US DOT is adding yet more wrinkles to this equation with the VII  
> program, which basically (there are a few decent psuedonymity  
> protections built in; the same system will allow car manufacturers  
> to also sell value add services such as traffic info, telematics  
> data and so on) communicates with roadside equipment and a larger  
> network for a variety of purposes.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_infrastructure_integration
>
> Another issue that few people are aware of. Should you be involved  
> in a collision in your car, the data in the black box has generally  
> been regarded as your private info. Should you "sell" your car to  
> the insurance company via  a total loss settlement, that data can be  
> used for better or worse to determine speed, aggressive driving and  
> other factors which the owner/driver may not wish to divulge.
>
> Best regards,
> Andy Burnette
>
>
> On 03/05/2010 04:56 PM, Dave Farber wrote:
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > *From:* James Powers <jpowers () data-rights com
> > > <mailto:jpowers () data-rights com>>
> > > *Date:* March 5, 2010 4:46:11 PM EST
> > > *To:* <mailto:dave () farber net>dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net 
> > > >
> > > *Subject:* *Most Of Us Have Black Box Recorders in our Cars*
> > >
> > > Dave,
> > >
> > > For IP if you wish and thanks for an exquisite resource in IP.
> > >
> > > [And I hope you and Gigi are doing well (I’m Robert Pepper’s fri 
> > > end, I
> > > dined with you and Gigi at Pep’s house a few years ago)].
> > >
> > > BMW and many other vehicle makers have had access to this data for  
> > > years.
> > >
> > > They just didn’t want your or I to know about it.
> > >
> > > With OnStar and the other services exploding, I’d wager most new 
> > >  cars
> > > have this capability to some degree.
> > >
> > > The data itself is rarely disclosed which seems only to be when
> > > advantageous to a car maker or when compelled by an outside  
> > > authority.
> > >
> > > The data is pretty rich: In one BMW case, it merged GPS data with
> > > vehicle condition info (engine and speed) giving a very vivid  
> > > picture
> > > of an event.
> > >
> > > This was then supposedly used to contradict a customer’s claim of
> > > normal use.
> > >
> > > The black box data showed a high rate of speed and at a specific  
> > > time
> > > and location (and with detailed engine and gear conditions) it
> > > suggested abuse of the vehicle.
> > >
> > > I’ve spoken to a few people at different car makers about this b 
> > > ut no
> > > one wants to touch it.
> > >
> > > The simple and proper solution is to disclose this technology and  
> > > get
> > > our consent to its constrained and verifiable use.
> > >
> > > After all, if its use was disclosed, and its laudable applications
> > > agreed to, then I think most of us would support this capability.
> > >
> > > But we can’t do that if we are not told.
> > >
> > > And until now, it seem to have been something just too sensitive for
> > > them to want to speak to.
> > >
> > > No longer and this should be interesting.
> > >
> > > Jamie Powers
> > >
> > > Jamie Powers, Esq.
> > >
> > > Data Rights & Privacy Advisors, LLC
> > >
> > > <http://www.data-rights.com>www.data-rights.com
> > > <http://www.data-rights.com> (our apologies while under redesign)
> > >
> > > "Personal Data - The 21st Century Asset" (TM)
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > > *From:* Dave Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
> > > *Sent:* Friday, March 05, 2010 2:27 PM
> > > *To:* ip
> > > *Subject:* [IP] Toyota and "black box" data
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Begin forwarded message:
> > >
> > >    *From:* Abe Singer < <mailto:abe () oyvay nu>abe () oyvay nu
> > >    <mailto:abe () oyvay nu>>
> > >    *Date:* March 5, 2010 2:23:23 PM EST
> > >    *To:* David Farber < <mailto:dave () farber net>dave () farber net
> > >    <mailto:dave () farber net>>
> > >    *Subject:* *Toyota and "black box" data*
> > >
> > >    Dr. Farber,
> > >
> > >    The article below may be of interest to IP. The most mind- 
> > > boggling
> > >    part is that Toyota has only *one* computer in the US capable of
> > >    reading EDRs, so for any investigation they have to send a person
> > >    out with that laptop to recover the data.
> > >
> > >    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_hi_te/us_toyota_black_boxes 
> > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_hi_te/us_toyota_black_boxes
> > >
> > >    "Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices  
> > > similar
> > >    to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on  
> > > sudden
> > >    unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press  
> > > review of
> > >    lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.
> > >
> > >    The AP investigation found that Toyota has been inconsistent  
> > > — and
> > >    sometimes even contradictory — in revealing exactly what the  
> > > devices
> > >    record and don't record, including critical data about whether  
> > > the
> > >    brake
> > >    or accelerator pedals were depressed at the time of a crash.
> > >
> > >    By contrast, most other automakers routinely allow much more open
> > >    access
> > >    to information from their event data recorders, commonly known as
> > >    EDRs."
> > >
> > >    [snip]
> > >
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