WORTH READING Good read Yale switching to Google Apps / Gmail

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Stewart Baker <stewart.baker () gmail com>
Date: February 10, 2010 9:39:24 PM EST
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Good read Yale switching to Google Apps / Gmail

Dave,

IANA(c)L, thank God, but it seems to me that Google is more the victim
of copyright law here than the aggressor.

Wacky as it may seem, everything you or I write is copyrighted,
whether we publish it, put a (c) by it, or not.  Which means, among
other things, that you are committing a technical violation of
copyright every time you forward someone else's email.  I say
technical because social mores treat this as a non-violation, which
means it would probably be treated as fair use, today.  But I remember
when reproducing copyrighted material for free was also treated as a
non-violation.  Mores change, or are changed by copyright holders
monetizing their product.

Because mores change, no business can afford to "technically" violate
copyright laws, with their punitive pro-plaintiff rules.  Certainly a
business that forwards, distributes, translates, and reproduces
gigabytes of technically copyrighted material every day can't afford
to rely on social mores to protect itself from liability.

The solution seems to be the "license" that Google includes in its
standard terms.  If you read it, you'll see that the things Google
gets a license to do are pretty much what you'd expect a good email
provider to do.

So if you don't like the license, don't blame Google.

Blame the copyright lawyers.

Oh, and by the way, congrats, Dave, this analysis would seem to make
your list one of the biggest sustained copyright violators in history.
I hope that doesn't mean we'll all have to grant you licenses to stay
on the list.

Stewart

(And for the record, this message is hereby Creative Commons licensed:
Attribution-NonCommercial)

On 2/10/10, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote:
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Doug Humphrey <doug () joss com>
> Date: February 10, 2010 9:07:56 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net
> Cc: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com>
> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Good read Yale switching to Google Apps / Gmail
>
> > > > > /www.google.com/accounts/TOS?hl=en
> > > > >
> > > > > <quote>
> > > > > 11.    Content licence from you
> > > > >
> > > > > 11.1    You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in
> > > > > Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
> > > > > By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a
> > > > > perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive
> > > > > licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly
> > > > > perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit,
> > > > > post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the
> > > > > sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the
> > > > > Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the
> > > > > Additional Terms of those Services.
> > > > > </quote>
> > >
> > > Ok, so Google isn't claiming copyright, they're just getting an
> > > irrevocable and royalty-free right to all your stuff, via language that
> > > that can be stretched around anything they want to use it for.  How's
> > > that really any better?
>
> exactly my point as well!
>
> I am not saying they are taking MY rights, but by sending an
> email to joe saying "hey, do you realize that when you X the Y you get Z?"
> I am giving them license to "when you X the Y you get Z"?
>
> in fact, it would be interesting to know if you mention something,
> in private email with someone else, if you go for a patent on it,
> or if you go to execute an exclusive license agreement with someone,
> is there a difficulty because you have given a non-exclusive license to
> it to Google simply by mentioning it in an email message on their service?
>
> Even if it was just a message TO YOURSELF as a reminder note?
>
> doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Stewart Baker
o: 202-429-6402
c: 202-641-8670




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