Re: "Entry level pricing"

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Rahul Tongia <tongia.cmu () gmail com>
Date: October 4, 2009 1:46:32 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Cc: ip <ip () v2 listbox com>, nnsquad () nnsquad org
Subject: Re: [IP] Re: "Entry level pricing"

[Dave, I don't know if my previous but similar email got to you].

As I mentioned before, broadband is more than speed, but quality.

I *tried* 768 kbps DSL from XXX (384 kbps uplink) but COULD NOT USE  
VoIP and had to upgrade.  You may ask if VoIP really needs that much  
bandwidth, and whether I really got it. But it's also likely they  
offer a link that can go "upto" 384 kbps uplink but is likely very  
heavily oversubscribed or otherwise "optimized" at the central office.  
[given it is DSL, all modifications are at the CO level].  In  
contrast, I have relatives in India who, a few years ago, had DSL that  
was 64 kbps (!).  But, they could always use skype to the US crystal  
clear.  In that particular case, my guess was the uplinking routing  
was also good.

Rahul

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:04 AM, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote:


Begin forwarded message:

From: "George Ou" <george_ou () lanarchitect net>
Date: October 3, 2009 10:05:20 PM EDT
To: "'John S. Quarterman'" <jsqdell () quarterman com>
Cc: "'Robert J Berger'" <rberger () ibd com>, "'Declan McCullagh'" <declan () well com 
>, nnsquad () nnsquad org, "'Shannon McElyea'"  
<Shannon () ShannonMcElyea com>
Subject: [ NNSquad ] Re: Subject: Re: [IP] "Entry level pricing"

"I like to watch Congressional hearings live.  Over AT&T's allegedly  
3Mbps
DSL downlink they come in choppily, with frequent pauses and voice-video
mismatch."

I think you are grossly exaggerating here.  Even YouTube 2.25 Mbps 720P
streams come in perfectly for me on my 3 Mbps sync rate connection which
works out to about 2.5 Mbps raw data speeds.  Most of the government  
streams
are well under 1 Mbps and they're usually buffered.  If you are  
experiencing
choppy video, it's probably something else because I stream stuff from  
the
FCC hearings all the time with no problems.

Uploading 110 videos falls under the category of content production and
that's not usually what business users need.  I don't even know many  
content
producers who upload 100 videos a day and it would be hard for me to  
believe
that you upload this many on a frequent basis. It would take some time  
just
to amass that amount of material.


-----Original Message-----
From: jsq () internetperils com [mailto:jsq () internetperils com] On Behalf  
Of
John S. Quarterman
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 9:39 AM
To: George Ou
Cc: John S. Quarterman; 'Robert J Berger'; 'Declan McCullagh'; 'Shannon
McElyea'; nnsquad () nnsquad org
Subject: Re: [ NNSquad ] Re: Subject: Re: [IP] "Entry level pricing"

"We can't even use that to do remote work on our computers at work and  
the
overall thruput is severely limited by the ridiculously low upstream
bandwidth."

Just out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do that requires more  
than
3
Mbps?

Well, I don't know what anyone else does, but I'm currently trying to
upload 110 brief videos of a political meeting to YouTube.
At 256Kbps up, that's taking a loooooooong time (days).

I also have half a dozen cameras recording wildlife views every minute.
Over my local network I can see them all and review every frame quickly
every day.  If I'm travelling, not so much.

I like to watch Congressional hearings live.  Over AT&T's allegedly  
3Mbps
DSL downlink they come in choppily, with frequent pauses and voice-video
mismatch.

I'm coordinating a research project with participants in three different
states.  We use Skype, which mostly works, but it would be nice to also
have interactive group video for some of the discussions, for  
expressions
and show-and-tell.  I suspect this is a common situation in business, as
well.

I know plenty of offices with 50 people all sharing a single 1.554
Mbps T1 line.  Well designed remote productivity applications are  
designed
to work at 0.028 Mbps modem speeds and you can use Citrix and RDP on
dial-up.  I've got 3 Mbps at home and the only thing that's annoying is
trying to download larger video files but it does work.  Posting 10 Mbps
HD
content onto YouTube so they can encode a good 2.25 Mbps version is much
slower than I like but it does work.

If you do them one at a time and you have no deadlines....

Meanwhile, in countries that have ISP competition, esp. for the first  
mile,
30Mbps and up speeds are available to everybody, for prices similar to  
what
we pay for speeds that hardly work.

Someone else asked:

If its this bad in Silicon Valley, what is it like 20 miles out of
most third tier cities in the US?

That would be me.  I'm lucky to get 3Mbps here, due to an accident
of distance; none of my neighbors do; one gets 1Mbps; the others get
dialup.  And you may think, just go into town, have lunch at a place
with wireless, and upload.  Heh.  They have 3Mbps DSL (256K up), too.

-jsq






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