Interesting People mailing list archives
Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed)
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:51:55 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: "Steve Papa" <spapa () Endeca com> Date: March 18, 2009 8:46:00 AM EDT To: <dave () farber net>Subject: RE: [IP] Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed)
Dave, There is an interesting opportunity that I believe our Congress missed. As mentioned below the core issue is the CDS obligations. Ideally AIG would have been able to simply "return" the CDS fees they received and cancelled the insurance. Instead, we propped up AIG with $100B+...AIG made good on their CDS obligations and paid the billions to Goldman, etc. (who then proceeded to pay those billions in bonuses -- far more than what AIG allegedly paid out). A potentially better approach would have been to create a corporate excise tax (like the bonus tax being proposed) on all proceeds from CDS. Make the tax so onerous that if AIG then simultaneously offered to allow the cancellation of a CDS obligation in return for a refund of fees..the cancellation of the CDS instrument would be better financially for both parties. Such a move would effectively cancel out the CDS market as it stands today. Furthermore it would stop the cycle of funneling money into AIG simply to reward the folks that betted in the casino. As a reminder it is the CDS market that is described as a >$50trillion outstanding liability hanging over all our heads so cancelling this out is a requirement to eliminate the opaque risk present in the system. Sadly - this would have been very valuable to do in November. I do not know how much more AIG will payout on CDS's....it would be nice to know if Congress is even tracking that. Steve -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:11 AM To: ip Subject: [IP] Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) Begin forwarded message: From: Lars Poulsen <lars () beagle-ears com> Date: March 17, 2009 9:19:04 PM EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) David Farber wrote:
Bankrupsy judges have been know to get contracts cancelled with employees (ask the airlines) and to get monies back paid like AIG paid
it. Seems to me the USG would be in no worse shape nor would AIGs creditors.
Whatever the *reality* (we all know that AIG is toast), the game has been to AVOID declaring AIG bankrupt. Rather, the goal has been to run out the clock while many of its credit default swaps expire without getting renewed. Rumor has it that this has been quite successful: The $180B capital infusion has allowed $300B of CDS contracts to expire. Certainly, a bankruptcy judge can cancel contracts; indeed the point of bankruptcy is to put the world on notice that the subject company (or person) has been recognized to be unable to fulfill its (his) contractual obligations, and the judge is now in charge. In some instances, the *threat* of suing for bankruptcy has convinced creditors and contract partners that they would be better off voluntarily backing off on their contractual rights and get *something* rather than get nothing in a bankruptcy court, but in this case, AIG's management and other beneficiaries of the bonuses know very well that the government thinks that it cannot affort to take AIG to bankruptcy court. If AIG was declared bankrupt, and has insufficient assets to pay all its obligations, the creditors are worse off, than if they have some hope that thay may get paid. At present, they can at least pretend that they think they will get paid (and some of them will - indeed some of them have already been paid). Ann Marie Plubell <amplubell () yahoo com> wrote:
"Outside counsel has advised that these are legal, binding
obligations > of AIG, and there are serious legal, as well as business, consequences > for not paying." (Source Liddy letter to Geitner, March 14, 2009) > Could it be a firm as excellent as Weil Gotshal rendered this advice? If the lawyers were retained by AIG's executive team, and they think of the government as an outside party that AIG must maneuver to defend itself against (and the law firm's web page implies that this is the case), then the government should not rely on their opinion but ask its own lawyers. I think that is what is happening now, at president Obama's insistence. I think an argument can be made that when congress passed a law imposing caps on executive compensation in companies that henceforward received "extraordinary assistance", and AIG subsequently received such assistance, these compensation agreements became nullified to the extent that they would lead to compensation above the cap. / Lars Poulsen ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Current thread:
- So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) David Farber (Mar 17)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) David Farber (Mar 18)
- Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) David Farber (Mar 18)
- Re: So what would happen if AIG was forcedinto bankrupsy (pre-planed) David Farber (Mar 18)