Re: Kindle 2.0

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Krulwich <krulwich () yahoo com>
Date: February 11, 2009 4:40:42 AM EST
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:   Kindle 2.0
Reply-To: krulwich () yahoo com

All reviews indicate that the Kindle can in fact browse any site as  
far as the network is concerned, but limitations come from the limited  
browser and the inappropriateness of its paperback-sized B&W screen to  
browsing.  But all reviews discuss being able to browse arbitrary sites.

I believe that the language quoted below is Amazon's leaving  
themselves the right later to limit in order to keep the economics of  
free network access going.

I think that Amazon and Sprint should be congratulated and commended  
for moving to a model of network access being free as subsidized by  
service.  There are always kinks to work out on a new approach, and  
such kinks need to be met with respect and suggestions and not derision.

--Bruce


--- On Tue, 2/10/09, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote:
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Subject: [IP] Re: Kindle 2.0
To: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com>
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:58 PM

Begin forwarded message:

From: "David P. Reed" <dpreed () reed com>
Date: February 10, 2009 9:46:47 AM EST
To: dave () farber net
Cc: ip <ip () v2 listbox com>
Subject: Re: [IP] Re:  Kindle 2.0

The day the Kindle ads start claiming it offers "access to the
Internet", I hope people will think carefully about truth in  
advertising.
Access to the Internet is a well-defined term, and is what cable and  
fiber based
companies offer today for a monthly subscription fee.  "The Internet"
itself an all-encompassing term, which means best efforts delivery of  
packets to
every reachable destination on the Internet.

Merely being able to access part of the World Wide Web is not access  
to the
Internet.  It is simply "access to part of the World Wide Web".

See: http://www.dpsproject.org for a very clear and simple definition  
of this
important issue in a legal context.

David Farber wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Michael Kende" <Michael.Kende () analysysmason com
<mailto:Michael.Kende () analysysmason com>>
> *Date: *February 9, 2009 1:51:30 PM EST
> *To: *<dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net>>
> *Cc: *<zittrain () law harvard edu
<mailto:zittrain () law harvard edu>>
> *Subject: **RE: [IP] Kindle 2.0*
>
> Interesting question. In my view this should definitely not be  
limited
> by regulation, which in some ways would have a perverse effect. The
> device is aimed to access books, and only access books or other  
content
> downloaded from Amazon (or documents sent to the device by the  
owner).
> If there was a net neutrality rule requiring access to web sites,  
this
> could simply lead to shutting off all web browsing, rather than  
opening
> up the browsing, as browsing is clearly a secondary use of the device
> (indeed, if it is activated today, I haven't tried it). And is it a
> slippery slope to wonder whether net neutrality could then force open
> the interface to allow other content to be downloaded? Amazon does  
not
> hold itself out as an ISP, and the Kindle is not positioned as a web
> browser, so setting aside the general merits of net neutrality, I  
cannot
> see the benefits of applying it in this case.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:27 PM
> To: ip
> Subject: [IP] Kindle 2.0
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Jonathan Zittrain <zittrain () law harvard edu
<mailto:zittrain () law harvard edu>>
> Date: February 9, 2009 12:23:23 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net>
> Subject: Kindle 2.0 [for IP?]
>
> Amazon has just introduced its second-generation Kindle book  
substitute.
> As a reader, I'm intrigued -- I can download a bunch of books and
> apparently use it for days without a charge. Looking at the overall  
IT
> ecosystem, I'm also intrigued, but for opposite reasons.
>
> The downloading takes place over an "EVDO modem with fallback to
1xRTT;
> utilizes Amazon Whispernet to provide U.S wireless coverage via
Sprint's
> 3G high-speed data network."[1] The connectivity needed to download
> books and browsing certain other sites is free of charge:
> "The Kindle Store enables you to download, display and use on your
> Device a variety of digitized electronic content, such as books,
> subscriptions to magazines, newspapers, journals and other  
periodicals,
> blogs, RSS feeds, and other digital content, [*]as determined by  
Amazon
> from time to time[*]."[2] ... "Amazon provides wireless
connectivity
> free of charge to you for certain content shopping and downloading
> services on your Device. You may be charged a fee for wireless
> connectivity for your use of other wireless services on your Device,
> such as Web browsing and downloading of personal files, should you  
elect
> to use those services."[3] So there appears to be a more generic Web
> browser -- how locked down it is I'm not sure, but the overall
platform
> does not allow third party apps, and I wonder if it even allows  
things
> like Flash -- and Amazon will charge fees TBD for going outside the
> sandbox.
>
> Suppose that Amazon does indeed get to (1) choose what Web sites its
> users can visit or (2) choose what Web sites will incur a wireless
> access fee (to the user). I'm curious whether people think either
> practice should be banned or limited by regulation, e.g. as a  
violation
> of network neutrality. If a standard ISP did this, would it be a
> problem? Does the fact that Amazon is both ISP and hardware provider
> make the situation better or worse? At some level a specialized  
device
> won't substitute for "standard" Net access and one
wouldn't complain
> about limitations, any more than one complains that standard cable TV
> service doesn't allow Web surfing, even if the set top box can tune  
to
a
> handful of specialized Web site front ends for "enhanced"
content. (In
> fact, some televisions themselves now do this, along with Blu-Ray  
disc
> players.) On the other hand, it's clearly a platform convergent with
> everything else -- one could imagine bringing only a Kindle on a trip
> and managing web and primitive email access from it.
>
> I think we'll be faced with more and more of these hybrid Internet
> appliances. I'm worried about the end of the ethos of the mainstream
> hobbyist PC -- defined as the general public being able to define  
what
> code they want to run, without interference or undue shaping by
> gatekeepers -- and see appliances (and managed web services like the
> Facebook and Google apps platforms) as substitutes rather than
> complements.[4]
>
> Best,
> JZ
>
> --
>
> [1] - <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00154JDAI>
> [2] -
>
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200144530&#c
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html? 
nodeId=200144530&#c>
> ontent
> >
> [3] -
>
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=kin2w_ddp?nodeI
> d=200144530&#wireless
> >
> [4] - <http://www.futureoftheinternet.org>
>
> Jonathan Zittrain
> Professor of Law
> Harvard Law School | Harvard Kennedy School of Government Co-Founder,
> Berkman Center for Internet & Society
<http://cyber.law.harvard.edu>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now
> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/
> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
>
>
>  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email is confidential and is protected by copyright. When  
addressed
to our clients it is subject to our terms and conditions of business.
>
> Analysys Mason Limited is registered in England and Wales. Registered
office: Bush House, North West Wing, London WC2B 4PJ, UK. Registered  
number
05177472. Tel +44 20 7395 9000. Email enquiries () analysysmason com
<mailto:enquiries () analysysmason com> or visit www.analysysmason.com
<http://www.analysysmason.com>
>  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now>
<https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/>         [Powered by Listbox]
<http://www.listbox.com>
>




-------------------------------------------
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com




-------------------------------------------
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now
RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/
Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com