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Why do we have to care so much about how to interpret what Comcast says and does?
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 05:55:52 -0700
________________________________________ From: Bob Frankston [bob37-2 () bobf frankston com] Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:03 AM To: David Farber; 'ip' Cc: 'Lauren Weinstein'; dpreed () reed com Subject: [IP] Why do we have to care so much about how to interpret what Comcast says and does? I feel like I’m being mired in details as each annoyance or outrage emerges – RSTs, termination charges, cries of scarcity, warnings about evil bits and on and on. Maybe I’m missing something but if one opposes NN legislation why spend time on the details of protocols? Or, for that matter worry about termination charges? Am I the only pragmatist among all the idealists who think that we can make the current system work? I do agree that wresting control via encryption and opening up access points is a better approach (as opposed to bargaining for frequencies for yet another network). In the meantime we keep dancing around the question of why these companies are in the position to be gatekeepers. We know why – a century ago it seemed that the business of telecommunications was no different than railroads. But why do we continue to act as if it makes any sense. Do people still believe you need some benevolent operator to do our networking for us – as I explain in http://www.frankston.com/?name=eComm2008 we can do better ourselves than carriers who want to bake in old ideas like circuits (MPLS) or second guess our intent (DPI) or act as vigilantes who treat all peer protocols as piracy? When Comcast says that they’ll solve the problem by doing P2P for us it’s like a restaurateur who can’t understand why we should be able to do our own cooking. How can you strike a deal that makes any sense as long as we have carriers owning our infrastructure and then selling it back to us as high priced service that don’t work very well? In this weekend’s NYT a story about how cable companies have total control yet earlier this week the NYT had a story about Roku/Netflix’ bypass. I can already watch TV better on my PC than via the buggy Comcast STB. Once you start looking it’s none of this makes sense anymore as the whole story of telecom is unraveling. Yet we keep trying to pretend we can legislate it into reality by common carriage<http://www.frankston.com/public/?name=NotJustCCAT> or whatever. What will it take for us to say that the game is over and honor the first amendment by demanding our right to communicate? Why don’t we own our highways – the information kind that is? From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 16:40 To: ip Subject: [IP] ] Ok guys and girls -- just who is telling the truth. Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com<mailto:lauren () vortex com>> Date: May 24, 2008 4:29:50 PM EDT To: David Farber <dave () farber net<mailto:dave () farber net>> Cc: "lauren () vortex com<mailto:lauren () vortex com>" <lauren () vortex com<mailto:lauren () vortex com>> Subject: Re: [IP] Ok guys and girls -- just who is telling the truth. Dave, One might note that the mere concurrence of BitTorrent, Inc., who has their own business model to protect, doesn't change a protocol violation into an acceptable technique, even when used on an interim basis (e.g. from Comcast's standpoint, "until we got caught and found ourselves under the FCC gun on this matter ...") Nor does BitTorrent, Inc. necessarily speak for many other than themselves on this topic, especially not the larger universe of Internet users who wish to communicate on the Net without having their unencrypted data content probed, monitored, altered, injected, wiretapped, modified, and otherwise screwed with by some "pushing the envelope until it rips" ISPs. Of course, in the longer run encryption is likely to render much of this moot -- the sooner the better. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren () vortex com<mailto:lauren () vortex com> or lauren () pfir org<mailto:lauren () pfir org> Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com - - - --Apple-Mail-1--724014571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes Begin forwarded message: From: Seth Finkelstein <sethf () sethf com<mailto:sethf () sethf com>> Date: May 24, 2008 3:22:03 PM EDT To: ip <ip () v2 listbox com<mailto:ip () v2 listbox com>> Cc: David Farber <dave () farber net<mailto:dave () farber net>>, Brett Glass <brett () lariat net<mailto:brett () lariat net>> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Ok guys and girls -- just who is telling the truth. [For IP, if worthy] On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 06:43:44AM -0700, David Farber wrote: Sorry for the misunderstanding of what Comcast said -- I heard STOP not stop someday real soon djf (they need better communications) In the far future, so we are told, a system will be developed where everyone will be a publisher, where they will be able to get their message out without gatekeepers. It'll be called the Intruthnot, or something like that (and be full of Universal Resource Lie-caters). So, *without* *taking* *sides*, Comcast's actual statement is: http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/PressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=740 "Comcast and BitTorrent Form Collaboration to Address Network Management, Network Architecture and Content Distribution" Of which the most relevant portion is: "The Comcast and BitTorrent discussions have already produced meaningful results. On the one hand, Comcast announced that it will migrate by year-end 2008 to a capacity management technique that is protocol agnostic. "This means that we will have to rapidly reconfigure our network management systems, but the outcome will be a traffic management technique that is more appropriate for today's emerging Internet trends. We have been discussing this migration and its effects with leaders in the Internet community for the last several months, and we will refine, adjust, and publish the technique based upon feedback and initial trial results," said Tony Werner, Comcast Cable's Chief Technology Officer. In turn, BitTorrent acknowledged the need of ISPs to manage their networks, especially during times of peak congestion. "While we think there were other management techniques that could have been deployed, we understand why Comcast and other ISPs adopted the approach that they did initially. Recognizing that the Web is richer and more bandwidth intensive than it has been historically, we are pleased that Comcast understands these changing traffic patterns and wants to collaborate with us to migrate to techniques that the Internet community will find to be more transparent," said Eric Klinker, BitTorrent's Chief Technology Officer. "Earlier this year, Comcast announced its plans for the aggressive deployment of wideband Internet services using the DOCSIS 3.0 standard, which we project will be available in up to 20% of Comcast's households by the end of this year," said John Schanz, Comcast Cable's Executive Vice President of National Engineering and Technical Operations. "Additionally, we plan to more than double the upstream capacity of our residential Internet service in several key markets by year end 2008. We plan to take advantage of multi-carrier technology to further increase upstream capacity for all of our broadband customers in advance of the full DOCSIS 3.0 roll out." -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer http://sethf.com Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php ------------------------------------------- Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --Apple-Mail-1--724014571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" <html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><br><br><br>Begin forwarded message:<b= r><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><b>From:</b> Seth Finkelstein &l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:sethf () sethf com">sethf () sethf com<mailto:sethf () sethf com></a>><br><b>Date:</b= May 24, 2008 3:22:03 PM EDT<br><b>To:</b> ip <<a href=3D"mailto:ip@v2.= listbox.com">ip () v2 listbox com<mailto:ip () v2 listbox com></a>><br><b>Cc:</b> David Farber <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:dave () farber net">dave () farber net<mailto:dave () farber net></a>>, Brett Glass <<a h= ref=3D"mailto:brett () lariat net">brett () lariat net<mailto:brett () lariat net></a>><br><b>Subject:</b>= <b>Re: [IP] Re: Ok guys and girls -- just who is telling the = truth.</b><br><br></div></blockquote><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><= div><span>[For IP, if worthy]</span><br><span>On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 06:43= :44AM -0700, David Farber wrote:</span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>= Sorry for the misunderstanding of what Comcast said -- I heard STOP</span><= br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>not stop someday real soon = djf (they need better communications)</span><br></blockquote><span></span><= br><span> In the far future, so w= e are told, a system will be developed</span><br><span>where everyone will = be a publisher, where they will be able to get their</span><br><span>messag= e out without gatekeepers. It'll be called the Intruthnot, or</span><br><sp= an>something like that (and be full of Universal Resource Lie-caters).</spa= n><br><span></span><br><span> So,= *without* *taking* *sides*, Comcast's actual statement is:</span><br><span= </span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/Pres= sReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=3D740">http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/P= ressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=3D740</a></span><br><span>"Comcast and BitTorre= nt Form Collaboration to Address Network</span><br><span>Management, Networ= k Architecture and Content Distribution"</span><br><span></span><br><span> = Of which the most relevant portio= n is:</span><br><span></span><br><span> "The Comcast and BitTorrent discuss= ions have already produced</span><br><span> meaningful results.  = ;On the one hand, Comcast announced that it will</span><br><span> mig= rate by year-end 2008 to a capacity management technique that is</span><br>= <span> protocol agnostic. "This means that we will have to rapi= dly</span><br><span> reconfigure our network management systems, but = the outcome will be</span><br><span> a traffic management technique t= hat is more appropriate for today's</span><br><span> emerging Interne= t trends. We have been discussing this migration</span><br><span> &nb= sp;and its effects with leaders in the Internet community for the last</spa= n><br><span> several months, and we will refine, adjust, and publish = the</span><br><span> technique based upon feedback and initial trial = results," said Tony</span><br><span> Werner, Comcast Cable's Chief Te= chnology Officer.</span><br><span></span><br><span> In turn, BitTorre= nt acknowledged the need of ISPs to manage their</span><br><span> net= works, especially during times of peak congestion. "While we</span><b= r><span> think there were other management techniques that could have= been</span><br><span> deployed, we understand why Comcast and other = ISPs adopted the</span><br><span> approach that they did initially. &= nbsp;Recognizing that the Web is</span><br><span> richer and more ban= dwidth intensive than it has been historically,</span><br><span> we a= re pleased that Comcast understands these changing traffic</span><br><span>= patterns and wants to collaborate with us to migrate to techniques</= span><br><span> that the Internet community will find to be more tran= sparent," said</span><br><span> Eric Klinker, BitTorrent's Chief Tech= nology Officer.</span><br><span></span><br><span> "Earlier this year,= Comcast announced its plans for the aggressive</span><br><span> depl= oyment of wideband Internet services using the DOCSIS 3.0</span><br><span> = standard, which we project will be available in up to 20% of</span><b= r><span> Comcast's households by the end of this year," said John Sch= anz,</span><br><span> Comcast Cable's Executive Vice President of Nat= ional Engineering and</span><br><span> Technical Operations. "A= dditionally, we plan to more than double</span><br><span> the upstrea= m capacity of our residential Internet service in several</span><br><span> = key markets by year end 2008. We plan to take advantage of</spa= n><br><span> multi-carrier technology to further increase upstream ca= pacity for</span><br><span> all of our broadband customers in advance= of the full DOCSIS 3.0</span><br><span> roll out."</span><br><span><= /span><br><span></span><br><span>--</span><br><span>Seth Finkelstein = Consulting Programmer <a href=3D"http://sethf.com";><a href=3D"http://= sethf.com">http://sethf.com</a></a></span><br><span>Infothought blog - <a h= ref=3D"http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/";><a href=3D"http://sethf.com/info= thought/blog/">http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/</a></a></span><br><span>I= nterview: <a href=3D"http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php";><= a href=3D"http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php";>http://sethf= .com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php</a></a></span><br><span></span><br>= </div></blockquote><div style=3D"padding:0 4px 4px 4px;background-color:#ff= f;clear:both" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> <hr> <table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100%" styl= e=3D"background-color:#fff" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> <tr> <td padding=3D"4px"> <font color=3D"black" size=3D"1" face=3D"helvetica, sans-serif;"> <a style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#669933;border-bottom: 1px sol= id #444444" href=3D"http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=3Dnow"; title=3D"Go to ar= chives for ip">Archives</a> <a border=3D"0" style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:#669933" href=3D"http:/= /www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/<http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/>" title=3D"RSS feed for ip"><img bo= rder=3D0 src=3D"https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg";></a> <td valign=3D"top" align=3D"right"><a style=3D"border-bottom:none;" href=3D= "http://www.listbox.com";> <img src=3D"https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg"; title=3D"Powered by Listbox" border=3D"0" /></a></td> </font> </td> </tr> </table> </div> </body></html>= --Apple-Mail-1--724014571-- ________________________________ Archives<http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now> [https://www.listbox.com/images/feed-icon-10x10.jpg] <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/> [https://www.listbox.com/images/listbox-logo-small.jpg]<http://www.listbox.com> ------------------------------------------- Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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- Why do we have to care so much about how to interpret what Comcast says and does? David Farber (May 25)