Interesting People mailing list archives
more on on e-voting
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:19:55 -0500
Begin forwarded message: From: Stephen Unger <unger () cs columbia edu> Date: January 16, 2007 7:01:09 PM EST To: Ed Gerck <egerck () nma com> Cc: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com Subject: Re: [IP] on e-voting On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Ed Gerck wrote:
From: Stephen Unger <unger () cs columbia edu> Date: January 15, 2007 3:57:46 PM EST
... When did you last hear about election fraud in Canada, Germany, or Sweden, for example? The bottom-line argument is that there are no advantages of e-voting overthe manual approach that come anywhere near compensating for the greatincrease in the likelihood of fraud and error.
Great increase in the likelihood of fraud and error? After e-voting started in Brazil more than 10 years ago, with a fierce multiple party system making close ballot counts very common in many races, the total number of fraud cases affecting e-voting has been zero.
Brazil uses DRE machines made by Diebold, with no voter verified paper audit trails. Brazilian computer experts have the same concerns about vulnerability to fraud as are expressed in the US. Again, as in the US, the under-the-hood nature of computer fraud is such as to make proof of cheating extremely difficult. As discussed in the body of the article, the absence of clear proof is not evidence that cheating is not occurring. The fact that Brazil uses e-voting is no more of an argument for doing so than is the fact that Michigan uses it.
Paper ballots have a history of fraud, here and elsewhere.
That was made clear in the body of the article.
If banking in the US would be done the same way that some people advocate voting should be done, you would never really be sure of your bank balance, and it would take you days to get it.
This is not just an apples and oranges comparison--it is more like lemons and watermelons. Voting and banking are vastly different processes, with little in common. I have full knowledge of every banking transaction that I make. If the bank tried to misrepresent a transaction, it could not be concealed from me. In an election, I have no direct feedback indicating whether my individual vote was correctly tallied. I can only depend on a process involving a combination of poll watchers and poll workers. The problems involved are discussed in the body of the article.
Going back to paper, and exclusively to paper as some want, might be very profitable for those supplying the paper ballots and all that goes with the paper ballot system (printing, transport, storage, physical security, people),
Of course, e-voting machines are supplied gratis by philanthropic companies. They are programmed for each election and maintained, free of charge, by civic-minded technicians. ................ Stephen H. Unger Professor Computer Science Department Columbia University ------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed as lists-ip () insecure org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ipArchives at: Archives: http://archives.listbox.com/247/
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- more on on e-voting David Farber (Jan 16)