Interesting People mailing list archives
Re: Intuit's
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:18:48 -0500
Begin forwarded message: From: John Pickens <jpickens () sprynet com> Date: February 14, 2007 6:14:30 PM EST To: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com Subject: Re: Intuit's Reply-To: John Pickens <jpickens () sprynet com>Intuit also has a quality control problem on upgrades (actually just release updates). For a subset of users when they accept the upgrade, Intuit crashes forever more - actually a silent crash - open the database and you can see stuff - click on a menu item and ... poof... you're back to Windows with no Quicken running any more (silent crash). Got to know a customer support guy 12 time zones away very well. Took me about 12 hours online and on the phone to get it resolved (after 4-5 unintalls/installs and purging of lots of directories created by Quicken software). For some reason I'm hesitant to bite at the new "update" invite being foisted on me every day.
J -----Original Message-----
From: David Farber <dave () farber net> Sent: Feb 14, 2007 5:51 PM To: ip () v2 listbox comSubject: Intuit's "Bait & Switch" (was Re: [IP] Re: The death of non-regulated ISPs?)Begin forwarded message: From: Ted Nelson <tandm () xanadu net> Date: February 14, 2007 4:49:14 PM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: Ted Nelson <tandm () xanadu net> Subject: Re: Intuit's "Bait & Switch" (was Re: [IP] Re: The death of non-regulated ISPs?) Reply-To: tandm () xanadu net Dave,Intuit is going through their usual forced obsolescence cycle for Quicken, and just started notifying users that as of April's end they'll be cut off from their banks if they don't upgrade to the new version.So we've come to software that now just Expires? With no pretense of continuability? Like cars, when the allotted factory runs of spare parts run out? T On 2/14/07, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com> Date: February 14, 2007 10:17:16 AM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: lauren () vortex com Subject: Intuit's "Bait & Switch" (was Re: [IP] Re: The death of non- regulated ISPs?) Dave and Dave, Don't get me started on what it takes to get an SBC ("The New AT&T") data circuit fixed these days (e.g., a remote router rebooted). Reaching the level 1 support people ("far far away") is easy day and night. The trick is to talk your way past them to the next level, where actual corrections can usually be quickly made. Unfortunately, at level 1, no matter how precisely you can describe the problem (and required fix) their diagnostic ability is usually pretty much limited to "power cycle your modem -- you are running Windows aren't you?" But as Arlo said in "Alice's Restaurant" -- that's not what I came to tell you about. Intuit is going through their usual forced obsolescence cycle for Quicken, and just started notifying users that as of April's end they'll be cut off from their banks if they don't upgrade to the new version. Intuit even provides a handy link to click for upgrade discount information. If you go to the "upgrade discount" page and investigate further, you'll find that the price listed for an upgrade to the current version of Quicken Basic is *identical* to that for a new user install (that is, the standard retail box price). Given that this promised discount was zero, I decided to see what Intuit customer service had to say about this. I tried both the online chat and the live phone support. Both were answered without delay, apparently in each case by someone -- you guessed it -- "far far away." I spent a good hour-plus with these support people, who were polite, apologetic, and utterly useless. Apparently I misunderstood the meaning of the word "discount" -- an upgrade discount turns out not to exist for Quicken Basic -- only for more elaborate versions or versions bundled with other software: "Would you like to order these?" Seems like bait and switch, clean and simple. If you suggest this to the support folks, they'll politely agree, then tell you that there's nothing to be done, no escalation possible, have a nice day. Oh well. Of course, the Intuit system merrily e-mailed me a customer response survey form the next morning. How sweet ... --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren () vortex com or lauren () pfir org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, IOIC - International Open Internet Coalition - http://www.ioic.net Founder, CIFIP- California Initiative For Internet Privacy - http:// www.cifip.orgFounder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com - - -Begin forwarded message: From: Dave Crocker <dhc2 () dcrocker net> Date: February 13, 2007 10:13:07 PM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: ip () v2 listbox com, Rodney Joffe <rjoffe () centergate com> Subject: Re: [IP] The death of non-regulated ISPs? Reply-To: dcrocker () bbiw netEarthlink seemed to be one of the more professional, stable ISPs, despite their occasional market missteps. And when they reach the point that they can survive by creating an impervious support barrier that takes care of run-of-the-mill problems, but ignores unusual problems to the point that THEY have spent 14 hours of toll- free time...Rodney (and Dave and IP...) The problem is not specific to ISPs. It has become the common experience for most companies' customer service model. For some years, I've characterized this as as "Customer service personnel are willing to spend any amount of time explaining why they cannot fix the problem." Rodney has merely gone to particular extremes to demonstrate this reality. Front-line support -- Level 1, if it's a real human that you get, and Level 0, if it's an automated response system by phone or email or the web -- is entirely defined by time per call. By design, as you imply in your note, their scope is limited to cover only the most common problems. So the issue is not with that part of the service. The problem is the way escalations are handled. What the Internet has enabled, is a new diversion technique: email and the web. It justifies reducing human customer support staff and for returning no responses. Ultimately, the problem is that consumers do not generally make purchases based on evaluations of customer service quality. (The San Jose Mercury News had a story today about American Airlines holding its passengers captive for 8 hours and charging them for sandwhiches. Unfortunately the silliness of the airlines' service model is entirely justified by the public's unwillingness to demand better treatment.) Yes, there are times when regulation makes sense: When consumers do not have a reasonable choice available, at the time of purchase, or when the vendor can assert undue control after the purchase, such as by physically holding passengers captive. Cingular has a better network, but they have aggressively bad customer service. T-mobile's network isn't as good, but their service is recognized as quite good. Which is the market leader? Why? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net ------------------------------------------- Archives: http://v2.listbox.com/member/archive/247/@now Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com------------------------------------------- Archives: http://v2.listbox.com/member/archive/247/@now Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Theodor Holm Nelson Visiting Fellow, Oxford Internet Institute Visiting Professor, University of Southampton Founder, Project Xanadu ------------------------------------------- Archives: http://v2.listbox.com/member/archive/247/@now Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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