more on more on ICANN ordered by Illinois court to suspend spamhaus.org

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Synthesis: Law and Technology"  
<synthesis.law.and.technology () gmail com>
Date: October 7, 2006 2:45:34 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on ICANN ordered by Illinois court to suspend  
spamhaus.org

Dave,

Lauren wouild do well to read the blog by an Illinois lawyer that  
Gadi linked to.

whats to stop the judge from ordering the IP as well?

Once a judge's order is being ignored, the people who ignore it do so  
at their risk.  The judge would be perfectly within rights to attempt  
to order ARIN to do something everytime an IP was used to get around  
his order.  He might be within his rights to order major ISPs to do  
what they can to block any IP for spamhaus that they find. That bit  
I'm not clear about.  but even if the judge is not within his rights  
and he may over step a bit in the enforcement of contempt orders who  
is going to be believed.  Are the police going to stop and scratch  
their heads and quote RFCs to the judge as a reason to not help him  
in the enforcement of the order?  Are ISPs going to piss off a judge  
by arguing?

With respect, now is a time for restraint in commentary.  Lets not  
give anyone any ideas shall we?  We all know the possibilities.  Is  
there any need to speak out loud and make things worse for spamhaus?   
We have the right to speech, yes.  But if exercising our rights cause  
harm to the people we want to help...






On 10/7/06, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com >
Date: October 7, 2006 12:21:46 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Cc: lauren () vortex com
Subject: Re: [IP] ICANN ordered by Illinois court to suspend
spamhaus.org


Dave,

Here's a thought question for us all.  If spamhaus.org loses its
domain name (and let's assume any other names they tried to obtain),
what's to stop them from operating on an IP address basis only?

Spamhaus has a large, dedicated, and mostly technically adept user
base.  I suspect that most of their users would be able to quickly
substitute an IP address for a domain name in the appropriate
configurations.  Word about the change, and any related future
address changes, would propagate quickly.  Less convenient, sure --
but doable.

In such a case, a court would have to order actual IP blocking, a
much more complex and legally problematic undertaking compared with
ordering ICANN to pull the domain name of a company that's not even
U.S. based.

As Bob Frankston frequently proselytizes, life *can* go on without
domain names.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren () vortex com or lauren () pfir org
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR
   - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, IOIC
   - International Open Internet Coalition - http://www.ioic.net
Co-Founder, CIFIP
   - California Initiative For Internet Privacy - http://www.cifip.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com
Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy
Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com

- - -

>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Gadi Evron <ge () linuxbox org>
> Date: October 7, 2006 7:54:11 AM EDT
> To: dave () farber net
> Subject: Re: ICANN ordered by Illinois court to suspend spamhaus.org
>
> This is a really good perspective on the subject, from an Illinois  
bar
> lawyer:
> http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/664
>
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Gadi Evron wrote:
>
>> Information about this court ruling can be found on Spamhaus's web
>> site,
>> here:
>> http://www.spamhaus.org/archive/legal/e360/kocoras_order_6_10.pdf
>>
>> Apparently, at this stage, it is only a proposed ruling. But I am no
>> lawyer.
>>
>>      Gadi.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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--
Dan Steinberg

SYNTHESIS:Law & Technology
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