more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak]

["David Farber" <dave () farber net>]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying
Leak From:    "Peter Wayner" <p3 () wayner org>
Date:    Sun, January 1, 2006 9:40 am
To:      dave () farber net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


The real problem with these complaints of treason is that they're 
incorrectly argued. The latest round of articles did not reveal any new 
capabilities to the terrorists, the foreign intelligence agencies or  even
the US people. The ability of the NSA to intercept phone calls  around the
world has been described in books like _Puzzle Palace_ and  many of the
best selling  spy novels written by Tom Clancy and Dan  Brown. In _Clear
and Present Danger_, Tom Clancy describes how the US  government has the
ability to use voice prints to locate the calls of  drug king pins who
borrow the phone of a friend. That book was
published about ten years ago in 1996. Was Clancy a traitor for
revealing the information he got from leaks? Is the Justice department 
investigating him?

Let's assume that the bad guys didn't manage to hear Clancy's best 
selling leak. Well, the information is still out there. The agency's 
mission has been regularly described in public by many in government 
including Michael Hayden, the former head of NSA. He would discuss the 
agency's capabilities and then promise that they would never be used on 
US citizens without the agreement of a Federal Court. The actions of  the
main court, known colloquially as FISA, is well-documented in  public
reports that describe the basic procedure and include a count of  the
warrants approved or disapproved in the last year.  This has been  going
on since 1978.

Do you want to know how many warrants were issued last year? Just turn  to
Google. It was about 1754.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/stats/fisa_stats.html

The news this time around is that the Bush administration felt that it 
didn't need to work with the FISA court. It decided it didn't need to 
fill out a form and get their approval to get the wiretaps. It decided  to
cut out a bit of the bureaucracy. Why? They feel that the
authorization to go to war against al Queda overrode all of the
previous safeguards and bureaucratic requirements. Did it? Only a jury 
can decide. How would you vote?

But any evil doers who used Google or read the official public reports  of
the NSA still knew they that could be wiretapped. The only
difference is that there is now one less form to fill out.

-Peter




On Dec 31, 2005, at 2:27 PM, David Farber wrote:

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Mary Shaw <mary.shaw () cs cmu edu>
> Date: December 31, 2005 1:57:10 PM EST
> To: JoeyEM () aol com
> Cc: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
> Subject: Re: [IP] AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak
>
> Joe,
>
> You appear to be saying that it's treasonous to expose illegal acts by  the
> government if those acts are carried out under the cloak of protecting  us
> from our enemies.
>
>  There seems to be something fundamentally broken about your model --
> it has
> no way to curtail illegal activities by the government.  The checks and
balances  provided for in the Constitution can't operate in this 
atmosphere,
> and the Constitution is what the government is supposed to be
> defending.
>
> The argument that the ends justify the means has long been suspect.
>
> Mary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JoeyEM () aol com>
> To: <mary.shaw () cs cmu edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [IP] AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak
>
>
> You ask why Mary??  How about treason!  Traitors who have  disclosed
information about an effective means with which to capture and destroy
enemies of the
> US.
>
> Mary, in case you didn't know, Muslims are out there who want to kill  
you.
> I know it's hard for Liberals to accept this basis  truth, but if you 
don't
> accept the fact that we are at war and that the NY  Times and
> Washington
> Post
> are more interested in protecting the rights of our  enemies than your 
life
> you
> better order your burka outfit as you may soon be  required to wear  one.
>
> And yes Mary, the NYT and WP are traitorous.
>
> Joe Mersnik






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