more on MIT says it won't admit hackers

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

------ Forwarded Message
From: Marc <marcaniballi () hotmail com>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:56:30 -0500
To: <dave () farber net>
Subject: RE: [IP] more on MIT says it won't admit hackers

Dear Dave;

It seems to me that regardless of the circumstances, American schools have
enough problems already without cutting out some of their best prospective
products!

Most "hackers" regardless of their field, are very bright and highly skilled
individuals who hold incredible potential for society as a whole. How many
modern products (mainstream!) can be said to have been derived from a hacker
mentality? Let's start with Apple and Blackberry and go from there.

US schools are already slipping in the global rankings due to post 911
policy - telling hackers that they aren't welcome just means that those
hackers won't come! And potentially worse, will have much less motivation to
realise their potential within an American environment that obviously
doesn't appreciate them.

There are better ways of dealing with these issues; in a sense, the hacker
provides a public service in exposing weakness. Obviously there should be
legal consequences for malicious or harmful activity, but academic censure
does nothing to abate the acts, and does a lot of damage to the institutions
themselves.

If I were presiding over an institution such as MIT, I would be encouraging
hackers to play and report their findings - even give credits! Better an
environment of play and co-opetition, than one of repression and
significantly higher vulnerability.

When hacking is outlawed, only outlaws will hack - and without hacking
skills being encouraged and nurtured in our universities, where will the
skills come from to protect us from the outlaws?

Regards, 

Marc Aniballi

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com [mailto:owner-ip () v2 listbox com] On Behalf Of
David Farber
Sent: March 10, 2005 10:21 PM
To: Ip
Subject: [IP] more on MIT says it won't admit hackers


------ Forwarded Message
From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com>
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:20:00 -0800
To: <dave () farber net>
Cc: <lauren () vortex com>
Subject: Re: [IP] MIT says it won't admit hackers

Dave,

I really need to write up something in more depth to justify my reasoning on
this, but I believe these schools are grossly overreacting, in essence using
those students as "whipping boys"
to divert attention from the schools' own security problems.

I'm certainly not an apologist for hackers, but in this case the students,
using their own ID numbers, and only even potentially having access to
information about their own cases (as I understand the situation currently),
seem guilty in a moral sense primarily of those same elements of human
nature that cause people to touch surfaces marked "wet paint" -- no obvious
harmful attempt in this situation.

This is what I call a "big red button" episode.  If you mount a big red
button on a wall that says "don't push me" -- a lot of completely honest and
well-meaning folks are going to push it.
That's human nature again.

Yes, the students didn't show good sense in their actions.  On the other
hand, as a society we do a *terrible* job teaching youths about these issues
(if we even bother to try), so much of the blame is our own.

I strongly urge the educational institutions who are planning to reject
applicants soley on the basis of this incident to reevaluate their
decisions.  This incident does not rise to the level that it should be
capable of potentially ruining what otherwise might have been bright
academic careers.

--Lauren--
Lauren Weinstein
lauren () pfir org or lauren () vortex com or lauren () privacyforum org
Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800
http://www.pfir.org/lauren
Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org
Co-Founder, Fact Squad - http://www.factsquad.org Co-Founder, URIICA - Union
for Representative International Internet
                     Cooperation and Analysis - http://www.uriica.org
Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on
Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com
DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com


  - - -


> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: Monty Solomon <monty () roscom com>
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:28:24 -0500
> To: <undisclosed-recipient:;>
> Subject: MIT says it won't admit hackers
>
>
> MIT says it won't admit hackers
> Business school joins Harvard in decision
>
> By Robert Weisman, Globe Staff  |  March 9, 2005
>
> The dean of MIT's Sloan School of Management yesterday said Sloan will
> join Harvard Business School in rejecting applications from
> prospective students who hacked into a website last week to learn
> whether they had been admitted before they were formally notified.
>
> Stanford's Graduate School of Business, meanwhile, asked its own
> applicant-hackers to come forward and explain their actions, in a sign
> that the California school soon may take tougher action as well.
>
> Thirty-two applicants apparently sought an early peek at the
> confidential data in their admission files at Sloan, while 41 files
> were targeted at Stanford and 119 at Harvard. Harvard on Monday became
> the second victimized business school to say outright it would not
> admit proven hackers. The first was Carnegie Mellon's Tepper School of
> Business, where one admission file was violated.
>
> Those schools, along with Dartmouth's Tuck School of Business and
> Duke's Fuqua School of Business, all use an independent website run by
> ApplyYourself Inc. of Fairfax, Va., to receive applications and, in
> some cases, manage communications with applicants.
>
> After midnight last Wednesday, hundreds of business school admission
> files were targeted by computers around the globe when a hacker posted
> detailed instructions on a BusinessWeek Online forum. Most of the
> hackers saw only blank screens, though some who accessed admission
> files at Harvard viewed preliminary decision information.
>
> ...
>
> http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/03/09/mit_says_it_wont_ad
> mit_ha
> ckers/
>
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
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