more on Intelligent design vs. evolution, From Neil Munro. So, I got a bunch of interesting replies ....

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

------ Forwarded Message
From: Rob <robspiere () aol com>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:01:42 -0500
To: <dave () farber net>
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Intelligent design vs. evolution, From Neil Munro.
So, I got a bunch of interesting replies ....

Dave, this rather long reply...  for IP if you wish.

I'm not quite sure where Mr. Munro is going with his argument that most of
our lives "must be guided by non-scientific patterns of thought."  He seems
to be saying that because there are so many things that science has little
to do with, like cheating on our spouses or choosing a dinner menu, science
lacks value as a "pattern of thought," and that we should teach other less
scientific methods.  He then cites an example of this not working out, which
seems to be without merit anyway.

In brief, the article cited talks about a Massachusetts middle school whose
standardized math scores have "plummeted in just three years" to 68% of
students passing, although it is never stated what the passing rate was
three years ago.  The author, Tom Mountain, blames a new "PC lunacy"
curriculum of anti-racist multiculturalist math, which allegedly makes the
"teaching of math... a distant second" to "demonstrating
anti-racist/anti-bias behaviors." The article is complete with familiar
anti-intellectual attacks against "highly-paid administrators," two of whose
salaries he quotes.

There's a good reason this story hasn't gotten much press:  because it's not
true.  Chris Correa has already written a great piece which refutes
Mountain's major points, and it can be found on Correa's website here:
http://www.chriscorrea.com/archives/2005/straw-mans-math/

According to Correa, the short version is that Mountain "essentially makes
up a math curriculum that doesn't exist."  The new curriculum in use at
Newton is the Connected Math program, which evidently has had success at
other schools.  Correa suggests that Newton might be having trouble due to
recent overcrowding in the classroom, and cites a report showing that most
of the high-scoring Massachusetts schools from 2002 have declined since
then.  

Finally, Munro asks if the science-types out react so strongly to
creationism showing up in the schools because they seet it as a populist
threat to the political clout of organized science.

Creationism *is* a threat to organized science because when it (or
Intelligent Design) is taught as equal to the theory of evolution the result
is to marginalize science and the scientific method as it applies to
everything else.  Creationism is not better or worse than evolution, it's
not more valid or less; the two are incomparable.  Evolution is a testable
and imperfect theory, which is largely consistent with emprical evidence and
has been refined and enhanced over decades of research and peer review.
Creationism by definition is the final word, perfect in every regard, with
an answer for everything.  When people say "they're all just theories, let's
teach them both" they imply that creationism and evolution are the same kind
of thing.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ip () v2 listbox com [mailto:owner-ip () v2 listbox com] On Behalf Of
David Farber
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:13 PM
To: Ip
Subject: [IP] more on Intelligent design vs. evolution, From Neil Munro. So,
I got a bunch of interesting replies ....


------ Forwarded Message
From: "Munro, Neil" <NMunro () nationaljournal com>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:30:26 -0500
To: <dave () farber net>
Subject: RE: [IP] Intelligent design vs. evolution, From Neil Munro. So, I
got a bunch of interesting replies ....


 .... some of which were on-point.

 This one from Eric Grimm struck me as interesting; "The mere fact that
those issues [Sudan, AIDS, etc.], too, are important, in no way suggests
that political efforts to brainwash schoolchildren and to indoctrinate them
into non-scientific patterns of thought, is somehow unworthy of comment or
remark."

 But most of our social relations, law, constitution and lives must be
guided by "non-scientific patterns of thought." What we eat for dinner, how
our political leaders manage our fractious disputes, what careers we choose,
how we scramble for grants and tenure, how we treat strangers, whether we
cheat on our spouses, how and why we vote or fight for advantage, are all
driven by non-scientific thoughts of good and bad, fair and unfair, cheat or
trade. Even if we hand these personal decisions over to committees of PhDs,
they're going to be decided by non-scientific patterns of thought, so it is
only rational to educate kids in the better types of non-scientific patterns
of thought. Of course, that begs the questions of what are better patterns.

 But here's an example where one type of non-scientific pattern of thought
has had a very bad impact on education, yet those who protest creationism
remain silent. A school system in liberal Newton Mass., has pushed down math
scores among poor kids by using math class to educate against racism.

http://www2.townonline.com/newton/opinion/view.bg?articleid=161257.com

 Nexis.com does not include ANY media stories on the topic over the last 90
days. The combination of "creationism and schools" reveals
826 articles over the same period.

 I understand why creationism is a ridiculous notion, that ID is not even a
testable theory, that people are busy and can only focus on a few things at
a time; But why do so few people who strongly oppose creationism CHOOSE not
to also protest against this and many other real-world example of bad
education policy by established education-professionals?

 Is it because they also see creationism as a populist threat -- not to the
quality of education - but to the political and social clout of organized
science and its allied professions?

 I hope not, but if so, it would only be an entirely human and natural
response, because history is full of examples where people rationally
protest what hurts them, and rationally ignore what hurts others.


Neil 



------ End of Forwarded Message


-------------------------------------
You are subscribed as Robspiere () aol com
To manage your subscription, go to
  http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip

Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/


------ End of Forwarded Message


-------------------------------------
You are subscribed as lists-ip () insecure org
To manage your subscription, go to
  http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip

Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/