more on Baghdad in your Backyard

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com>
Date: December 9, 2005 10:41:14 AM EST
To: dave () farber net
Cc: sparehed () gmail com
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard

Thanks, Wim, for those comments.  I have four boys myself, three of them
now grown.  And we went the "no guns" route, too, only to watch them use
sticks or pieces of plastic as improvised weapons.

And I'd also like to answer people publicly that might have a notion I'm
some "anti-gun" zealot (advocate, yes, zealot, no).  I grew up with
guns.  My father was an avid hunter and as such, introduced his boys to
his passion.  But before we were allowed to take one step into a field
with a shotgun, we had to take an NRA approved gun safety course.

And I loved hunting with my dad.  Much later, when I went into the
military, I qualified as an expert marksman with the M-16.

I do not hunt today; I don't own a handgun, rifle or shotgun.  But I
believe it does no harm to teach kids -- of an appropriate age--how to
safely handle guns in a supervised environment.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 09:23
To: ip () v2 listbox com
Subject: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard



Begin forwarded message:

From: Wim Lockefeer <sparehed () gmail com>
Date: December 9, 2005 2:54:56 AM EST
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on Baghdad in your Backyard

Brock -

I know this sounds like a "me to"-post, something that I'm always
trying to avoid, but still - I can't help but agree with you.

I have two small kids of my own, both boys, and I know from
experience that they are unstoppably drawn towards fighting and
weapons, and guns in particular.

After seeing them devising their own guns from pieces of wood and
plastic, I've given up my original stance of never allowing any toy
guns in the house.  Now we have some squirt guns lying around and a
few lightsabres.

Still, i've only changed my attitude towards this because it seemed
inevitable, and children need to learn to deal with violent
behavior.  They need to discover that dealmaking is not
straightforward ("Bang, you're dead" - "No, I'm not"), and that
fighting is not a way of solving a problem.

The things I see on the video, however, are way past that.  They show
that automatic firearms are cool, virtually harmless and acceptable.
They are not.  As any engineer in the arms industry will tell you - a
gun is made for killing.

w/


2005/12/9, David Farber <dave () farber net>:

Begin forwarded message:

From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com >
Date: December 8, 2005 11:44:24 PM EST
To: Zachariah Mully <zmully () smartbrief com>, dave () farber net
Subject: RE: [IP] Baghdad in your Backyard

Thanks, Z, for that splendid and detailed comment.  Truely an eye-
opener. It still astounds me; the allure of such a hobby is lost on me.

Furthermore, while I can grok how some adults might enjoy playing
with such toys, the children seen (and heard in the background) have
no business, in my opinion, firing these weapons.  But that's just my
opinion.


-----Original Message-----
From: Zachariah Mully [mailto: zmully () smartbrief com]
Sent: Thu 12/8/2005 9:36 PM
To: dave () farber net; Brock Meeks
Subject: Re: [IP] Baghdad in your Backyard

David Farber wrote:
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Brock Meeks <Brock.Meeks () msnbc com>
> Date: December 8, 2005 6:58:57 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net
> Subject: Baghdad in your Backyard
>
> Am I just getting too old?  This clip seems wrong to me on so many
> levels...
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5854686068870249151


Brock-
        I'm sure you'll get a lot of email about this post, but I
figured
having attended and participated at several events such as the one in
the video, I could offer you some insight into them and Title II
firearms. These machine gun shoots have probably been going on since the
Gun Control Act of 1968, but only now have others outside the community
discovered them.
        Title II/Class 3 weapons are basically full auto machine
guns, and a
subset of other firearms, such as shotguns w/OAL less than 26" (see
http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec.%205845 for detailed
definitions). Many states prohibit the possession of such weapons, other
states require often lengthy permitting processes (try 1.5 years in
Mass), but regardless, you must purchase the weapon from a federally
licensed Class 3 dealer, pay various transfer taxes (usually multiples
of $200) and register the weapon with the ATF.
        So once you've gone through the trouble of securing one of
these at
considerable expense (the cheapest are still usually several thousands
of dollars) and after much filing of paperwork, the dilemma is where to
shoot it? These are *not* the guns you hunt deer with, or rob your 7-11
with, regardless of what the Bradys might like you to think (I'm
curious, I wonder if anybody has a statistic for the number of crimes
committed with a *registered* Title II weapon). Most are probably 60-70
years old, and might have seen service in several wars, not to mention
being exceedingly rare, cantankerous and hellishly expensive to maintain
and shoot. And most gun clubs prohibit their use, not mention
discharging one in your backyard usually results in a neighbor calling
the cops.
        So what happens when you've got one, spent tens of thousands
of dollars
on parts kits, loaders, ammo, and new shocks for your truck to carry it
all? Well, like any group of enthuasists, they like to get together to
show off their stuff, enjoy each others company and enjoy their hobby.
If this means pounding a hillside in Bushleague, NH, ID or wherever with
hundreds of thousands of rounds, then so be it. Getting to these events
is not easy either, transporting these weapons across state lines is
illegal without first obtaining permission from the government requiring
you file your travel plans several months in advance.
        If there is ever an event held close to you, I'd recommend
you go to
it, every one I've been to has been professionally, safely and
exceedingly well run and managed, and the amount of concentrated
firepower is truly awesome. And completely legal.

Brgds,
Z
Gunless in DC



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